DeTomaso Mailing List: December 97, Message #58
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Frank Zambini wrote: >Yo People, >I thought maybe Curt was kidding when he posted his ><funnysht@digitalthunder.com> post but it's obvious this has occured. >Personally, I think it is unfortunate that a few whiners have split the >group up and some people now feel it is necessary to have a seperate >site. No matter I will support both. > >I must say I don't support censorship in any form (that's what I have a >delete key for) and I think recent posts have discouraged more people >then they have motivated. >Personally, I miss the numerous posts from the likes of Curt, Mad Dog, >Bo Bo and others who have done a good job of keeping all of us honest >and out of the trailer queen and it looks fast anyway mentality. >No Censorship, >Frank Z Shane wrote: >I dont know where you get your information from, but they are >untruths. There is no censorship on the DeTomaso Forum other than >"self-censorship" which you alone enforce when you decide to hit >the "send" or "delete" keys. > >The DeTomaso forum is not a moderated list. No censorship, ever. > >If you have been told otherwise, it was by people who misunderstand >technology and the spirit of the Forum. That is unfortunate, and the >spreading of rumours is irresponsible. > >I think it is great that Curt has started his own list. The internet >is a free medium to do whatever one wants. However I do ask certain >principles of contributors to this forum for many reasons. One reason is >that all posts are archived at a web site and are available to anyone >who want to read them. Anyone. Would you want your spouse to read >the forum's posts? How about your next boss? Just one of the reasons to >keep posts clean, non-libellous and on-topic. Always ask yourself this >question before submitting a post; "Would I stand in front of a person >say this to them in front of 200 other people?" >This Forum was formed to support DeTomaso enthusiasts everywhere, >and their appreciation of one of the finest automobiles ever built. This >is the Forum's only goal. ----------------------------- Shane, it sounds like your spreading rumors. No one that I've talk to has spread any such nonsense! I believe that when you called a lot of messages that were written "noise" you were guilty of misunderstanding the technology and the spirit of the Forum. Think what you want but we are not spreading any untruths. From the time you sent your message postings have dropped to nil! People are wondering if the server is down. I think (and nobody is telling me what to think) people are affaid that if they send something a little off of "DeTomaso only" they will get blasted from others on the list now that the Administrator (from your post) laid down some limits. ie the Hear, Hear crowd. I don't believe Frank got information from anyone but you Shane. Frank is a grown up that can make up his own mind. Contrary to what you'd have everyone believe, there is no group or person running around talking about the list behind yours or anyones back. I made a choice to start this other list to let the people that I've read here in the past have a choice to post and not be worried that they are off topic. Yes, you will not personally censor the list, but you did ask everyone to censor/moderate what they write. So, we are free to write what we want??? Not from what you wrote. That is a form of censorship not matter what you say (and that's what Frank wrote)! You started it and now this is what's happening, and it's not a result of ANYONE going around spreading rumors!!! So give us a break. And until you completly retract some of your statments as written in the message below, the other list has a reason to exist for those that want write with out feeling they will be blasted by others on the list and backed by the Administrator because of your message. Here is what you wrote: (see message "Forum signal-to-noise" on 11/25) ---------------------- I'd like to take this chance to remind everyone that this is the DeTomaso mailing list, a forum for the discussion of issues surrounding all DeTomaso automobiles, and specifically the DeTomaso Pantera. >>> Sounds like you want the talk limited to DeTomaso automobiles. ---------------------- This is an unmoderated mailing list. >>> You shouldn't say it's unmoderated then tell people you want limited topics. Your indirectly moderating. And people are confused as what they want to post by not wanting to write something that they think would be dissapprove of. (read message count is way down!) ---------------------- To prevent being overrun with non-DeTomaso related topics, also called "noise", I urge everyone to keep their posts related to all things that are DeTomaso, tech-tips and questions, runs, shows, history, sales, announcements, club events, etc. >>> Again, sounds like a major limit to me. What about a car (non-DeTomaso) joke now and then? What about any joke? How about a local car race that has no DeTomaso cars in it? How about a message about how fun a Tiger can be? How about an Invitation to a persons house for a game of cards? Or, a war of words (some fun and some not so fun) about were we like to live and drive? How about if someone asked what I do for a living, is that not allowed? What if someone asked us at our next club meeting that if you are talking to the group it better be DeTomaso only? We are all DeTomaso people learning a little about each other, just as you do in all area of life and as I would to when talking to a group of DeTomaso people at an event. ---------------------- Items that are not DeTomaso-related can be distributed "off-list". This means that if you wish to continue a conversation that may not be of general interest to the list, please do so privately, or to another list or news group. >>> Well now, that's just what we've done! We are going to continue our converstaions with all those that want to hear more than DeTomaso only. This also sounds like the list is to be limited (unofficially censored) to DeTomaso-related items. And a lot of us don't want that in a list at all. We want to talk with other DeTomaso owners and lovers about a lot of things! You (Shane) posted a car race that had no DeTomaso cars in it. Well, if cars in general are relate to DeTomaso then so is any car humor. Or, anything that a DeTomaso owner wants to write should be ok, because it is related by the fact that he has or loves DeTomaso cars. And from your outline, if someone doesn't agreee that a certain subject is right they'll start sending flames that are backed up by the message from the Administrator. So, instead we are all holding up sending certain messages and not having the fun we loved in the past about the list. (read the serveral message in the past about "I Love this List"). ---------------------- Please remember that there are over 160 participants on this list, who rarely wish to read a lot of noise. >>> If they don't like it they can: Delete the post. Unsubscibe from the list. Subscribe to a list with fewer postings. Learn to use there filters - but they may miss something good. Or, just get the message they want from the Web site and pick out message that have subjects to their liking. ---------------------- There is an easy way to check your posts for list-relevance. If your posting is not relevant or consistent with the "Subject" line of the message, then please either change the Subject line of your post (if still relevant to DeTomaso or related vehicles) or continue the thread off-list by posting privately. >>> I believe your asking us here to not post to the list if the subject is not relevant to DeTomaso. Again that is a limit/suggestion to censor. --------------now on with my message--------------------- If you'll read my other posting about the other list. You'll see I'm not trying to split up anything, I'm just providing what some of us want out here! If you don't want it fine. But so far a good number has join and are doing so because they felt limited on this list. Shane wrote people to ask themselves: "Would I stand in front of a person say this to them in front of 200 other people?" >>> That's great (really!), ask that of everyone. But don't tell us to limit our topics in general. Your post about "noise" was not great. And asking any person to limit what they want to say will always create a lot of "noise". Shane, don't be so sensitive, we just don't want the limits as you laid out. Curt T. 1TO9 MPG