DeTomaso Mailing List: August 98, Message #318

They have some machine they do it on and guarantee it.  They've done
it for a bunch of folks, and a buddy of mine that races Clevelands
swears by it.  So I'll take a shot.

S. Black




---David Doddek <pantera@pobox.com> wrote:
>
> At 12:29 AM 8/8/98 +0000, you wrote:
> >Just got a hydrulic cam & lifters from Cam Research.  had the cam and
> >lifters broken in by Cam Research.  Have intake port plates, adding
> >exhaust (single plates that bolt individually into each exhaust
port).
> > Am looking forward to it running.
> >
> >Good luck.
> >
> >S. Black
> >
> >
> I dont know if I would like pre broken in lifters.  The block that
they
> broke them in on may not have the same minute dimensions that differ
from
> yours and thus may cause some kind of premature wear in the same way
as
> running used lifters on the wrong cam lobe.
> 
> Dave the engineless
> >
> >---Mary Taphorn <marytaphorn@email.msn.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> >John,
> >> >
> >> >What's the word on your engine? Did you decide what you're going
to
> >do?
> >> 
> >> I spent last Saturday disassembling the rear of the P to exume the
> >engine
> >> and appraise the damage caused by the failed solid roller lifters. 
> >It has
> >> been a toaster in Texas so I took my time with plenty of pool
breaks
> >with
> >> the kids.  Working on a clean car makes the task a lot easier and I
> >was
> >> delighted at how smoothly the project went.  Frankly, I've taken
> >these cars
> >> apart so many times I was not excited about doing it again so I was
> >glad it
> >> went without a hitch.  Sunday morning Kirby Schrader came by and
> >together
> >> with the assist of my neighbor and a hydraulic lift we removed the
> >351C and
> >> ZF.
> >> 
> >> Since outside temps were in excess of 100 degrees, we took a few
> >breaks to
> >> view our Pocono video.  Kirby had some excellent in car camera
shots
> >that
> >> included some taken by me riding as a passenger in Ron Graves car
> >behind
> >> Kirby.  Ron, I'll get a copy to you very soon.  Fortunately for
> >Kirby, but a
> >> loss to the rest of us, the camera mysteriously shut off when Kirby
> >went
> >> into his spin entering Devil's Elbow.  Nexy year, we agreed that we
> >needed
> >> to do a better job of filming the listers along side their P cars.
> >> 
> >> Being the good sport that he is, Kirby agreed to endure the heat a
> >little
> >> longer as we opened the engine.  First order of business was to
> >remove the
> >> harmonic balancer.  Well surprise, surprise, the outer ring had
> >separated
> >> from the inner.  This would not have been good at Pocono!
> >> 
> >> Our aim here was to try to remove the cam while one of the solid
> >roller
> >> lifters was stuck in its bore.  Mike Trusty was right. The cam had
> >ground so
> >> deeply into the lifter's roller that it had spread the lifter
base. 
> >We
> >> couldn't extract the cam with the lifter in place.  Trusty had made
> >two
> >> suggestions to remove the spread lifter.  One was to try prying it
> >out - I
> >> was loath to attempt this fearing damage to the block.  The other
> >suggestion
> >> was to remove the plug at the back of the motor and with a long
> >punch bend
> >> back the base of the lifter.  This method worked fine from the rear
> >of the
> >> engine, but we had no angle from the front and were concerned about
> >damaging
> >> the cam's bearings.  Next thing I see is Kirby prying out the
> >lifter.  I was
> >> amazed that he seemed to be making progress and there was no sound
> >of the
> >> block cracking.  After employing several different lever and
fulcrum
> >> combinations along with donating several layers of skin from his
> >knuckles,
> >> the lifter came out of its bore.  The lifter was not a pretty sight
> >as it's
> >> roller was squared off and the damage to the cam lobe implied it
was
> >> probably not regrindable.  Of course this meant that there was
> >plenty of
> >> metal flowing through the block.  Ah yes, I forgot.  Metal, metal
> >every
> >> where. My brass distributor gear with 4k miles on it was paper thin
> >and
> >> brass shavings were everywhere in the engine. (The first and last
> >brass
> >> distributor gear that I will ever use.)  Another failure awaiting
me
> >at
> >> Pocono.  Jack, I read with humor your post about checking them
every
> >15K
> >> miles.  If your running them with an aggressive cam and high volume
> >pump you
> >> might want to be more diligent.  On the other hand, my engine
bearings
> >> inform me the added metal doesn't work as well as teflon when it
> >comes to
> >> lubrication.  I understand that teflon does't work either. The rod
> >and main
> >> clevite bearings had copper visible - the worst looking bearings in
> >any
> >> engine that I have seen to date.  Fortunately the crank jouirnals
> >were not
> >> damaged.  Pistons in bores 1 and 4 had also scored their bores
> >implying an
> >> oiling problem.  Haven't miked the bores yet to determine if a hone
> >will
> >> clean them up.  The bores are already .030 over, and if they don't
> >clean up,
> >> I'll be in the market for a new block as well.
> >> 
> >> Next steps:
> >> 
> >> On Dan Jones recommendation, today I contacted Scott at Cam
> >Research.  Scott
> >> is an independent that works on Ford motors only.   He tells me
that
> >he used
> >> to work for the big guys, but thought he could do it better on his
> >own. He's
> >> been at it since the early '70s.  I told him my experience with
> >different
> >> cams,challenges with the solid roller and desire to build power in
> >my motor
> >> between 3k & 6k RPM.  These were his thoughts.
> >> 
> >> 1) He advises his customers running solid roller lifters to change
> >them
> >> Annually.   Was not surprised about my failure.              Ouch$$
> >> 
> >> 2) Hydraulic rollers have worked well in Clevelands but their
weight
> >limits
> >> RPM to about 6200.  The heavy spring pressure required to overcome
> >their
> >> weight stifles their operation with the oil.    I had considered a
> >hydraulic
> >> roller cam prior to witnessing the bronze gear metal throughout my
> >engine.
> >> His response......
> >> 
> >> 3)  In about 9 weeks Crane is bringing to market a carburized
roller
> >billet
> >> cam that is compatable with a steel gear.  Can I be patient?  Well,
> >I'd miss
> >> the event at TWS and if hydraulic rollers aren't rev happy, than
why
> >bother.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 4)  Edlebrock Performer Manifolds suck - toss them in the garbage. 
> >Claims
> >> Vic had it all wrong.  While big ports into a small port may
provide
> >added
> >> velocity when you need it, at the point mixture is entering the
> >combustion
> >> chamber, small ports into a large one in the head cause stalling of
> >the
> >> airflow.  Claims to have evidenced their lackluster performance on
> >lots of
> >> dyno runs.  I expressed my incredulity offering half the Pantera
world
> >> including I use the manifold.  - He stood his ground.
> >> 
> >> Order of preference for manifolds running sub 6k RPM
> >> 
> >>     a) Ford Power Parts 'Blue Thunder' if your bucks up at ~ $350
> >>     b) If you can stand the weight, the stock 351C intake.
> >> 
> >> 5) Pete Jackson gear drive.   Avoid gear drives on a Cleveland -
> >they rob
> >> power.  Use a Chain.
> >> 
> >> 6) Strongly, very strongly recommends port plates.  Both exhaust
and
> >intake.
> >> His experience on the Dyno has always shown improvements in power
with
> >> Cleveland 4 barrel heads.  I know of others that swear by them,
but,
> >have
> >> sensed opposite feelings from the list.
> >> 
> >> 7) Loves aluminum flywheels for track performance when you are
> >accelerating
> >> out of an apex in the 3K RPM range.
> >> 
> >> 8) His cam recommendations: keep in mind, I am not looking for
highway
> >> performance but rather track performance where I'll keep the RPMs
in
> 
=== message truncated ===

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