DeTomaso Mailing List: May 99, Message #93

Anyone have an approximate price on the billet/ tapered bearing upgrade?
Does anyone have any recommendations or horror stories they want to share?

On close to the same subject, has anyone rebuilt their P from the ground up?
Is there anything I should be watching closely? Any words of wisdom for a
person about to embark on this journey?  What items should I replace or
upgrade as preventive measures, while I have the Car apart?

Thanks for any insights!

Russ Orzel
Siemens ICN
Software Development - IP telephony
P: 561 997 3815 
Email: Russell.Orzel@icn.siemens.com <mailto:Russell.Orzel@icn.siemens.com> 




		-----Original Message-----
		From:	MikeLDrew@aol.com [mailto:MikeLDrew@aol.com]
		Sent:	Wednesday, May 05, 1999 12:42 AM
		To:	Multiple recipients of list
		Subject:	Re:  10" Campys on stock car?

		Cal wrote:

		>It looks as though one has to modify the
		wheel bearings to take the large tires. Guess I'm missing
something but the
		bottom line is can one put on the larger wheels on a non-GTS
Pantera without
		running the risk of some damage or accelerated bearing wear?


		>>>The Pantera suffers from a fundamentally poor rear wheel
bearing design.  
		It's an excellent setup for cars that see no sideloads (i.e.
Land Speed 
		record car) but crappy for a sports car.

		More sideloads equals more unwanted stresses.  The further
the sideloads are 
		displaced outwards from the bearing centerline (i.e. with
GT5 wheels with 
		extreme positive offset) the worse the problem is.

		While the bearings themselves suffer, what is traditionally
referred to as 
		'the bearing problem' is actually an axle/bearing
relationship problem.  The 
		Pantera's axles are slightly undersize (or the inner
diameter of the bearings 
		oversize, depending on your perspective) and the axles are
also made of a 
		too-soft material.  The result is that play develops between
the inner 
		diameter of the bearing and the face of the axle.  As the
play gets worse, 
		the pounding gets worse, which accelerates the wear on the
axles.  Once 
		there's measurable wear, the bearings get beaten to hell and
the whole works 
		goes down the tubes.

		I personally don't think 10" Campys put THAT much additional
stress on the 
		axles/bearings, particularly in light of the fact that the
only tires you can 
		now purchase for 10" Campys offer medium traction at best,
but I have no 
		scientific evidence to back up this theory.  I think you'd
be much more 
		likely to suffer accelerated wear if you were running
super-sticky tires 
		(i.e. BFG R-1) on 8-inch wheels (and DRIVING the car
appropriately) than you 
		would with Euro T/A's on 10-inch wheels, but again, that's
just speculation.

		The jury is still out regarding aftermarket 17" wheels,
since they feature 
		tremendous negative offset and put the load more or less
directly underneath 
		the bearings.  But I suspect that 17" wheels with sticky
tires, driven 
		appropriately, will accelerate wear.

		Sticky tires on GT5 offset (either 15" or 17") will trash
bearings and axles 
		in a hurry.  Often they're destroyed in as little as 5,000
miles after 
		fitment.  This is a very well-known and documented
condition.

		Not wanting to deal with the potential problems, I upgraded
to tapered roller 
		bearings and billet steel axles.  Although I have 10" Campys
I would did this 
		anyway (since my stock bearings and axles were trashed when
I bought the 
		car.)  If my stock bearings/axles were fine I'd leave them
alone, but I would 
		realize that I was simply waiting for the inevetible to
occur.  

		Once it did, I would NEVER replace stock bearings and a
worn-out axle with 
		same-same--if I'm spending $500 a crack for new axles, you
better believe I'm 
		doing it ONCE, not once every five years or 15,000 miles!

		Mike

		P.S.  I'm writing this from my hotel room in Santa Cruz de
la Sierra, 
		BOLIVIA!  All those people who complain about AOL (and AOL
users) need to 
		realize that there's no way I could be doing so with any
other internet 
		provider.

		P.P.S.  You guys would all die laughing if you could see the
taxis here.  
		They purchase 5-7 year old cars from Japan (destined for the
junkyard, 'cause 
		the Japanese government artificially keeps their auto
industry afloat by 
		levying outragous taxes on cars older than 5 years; so much
so that it's 
		usually cheaper to literally throw away a perfectly good
6-year old car and 
		buy a new one, than it is to continue to drive the old one.)

		Problem is, the Japanese are screwed up (like the Brits) and
drive on the 
		wrong damn side of the road.  While most people would be
satisfied to just 
		drive a RHD car in a LHD world, I guess this is illegal in
Bolivia.

		Their solution is to literally RIP the entire steering
column out of the 
		right side of the dash (leaving all wires dangling), hack a
great bloody hole 
		in the glovebox lid and shove it in on the left side!!!!
All instruments, 
		etc. remain on the right side--who cares how fast you're
going?  Ignition 
		switch is relocated as well.

		Dunno how exactly they get a LHD column to talk to a RHD
steering rack--I 
		didn't really want to know since the rumor is that bicycle
chains and 
		sprockets are employed!  And don't ask about the clutch and
brake pedals 
		either--probably shafts running across the car.

		I rode at ridiculous speeds at night through a busy city
with 
		no-quarter-given-or-asked rules at every intersection,
(stopping at red 
		lights optional), all the time wondering when the steering
and/or brakes 
		would fail!

		Shudder! :>)