DeTomaso Mailing List: May 2000, Message #129

Steve,

Who was this written to, and in response to what.  I've heard some rumors about the discussion of repealing our pre-74 smog exemption, but have seen nothing concrete about it.

Craig Cline
San Diego

-----Original Message-----
From: steve.liebenow@divatv.com [mailto:steve.liebenow@divatv.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2000 1:29 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list
Subject: RE: Smog Watered Down! Article


Marla,

Who are you in bed with here????  You are spouting the same rhetoric that
big business is using to blame the automobile for everything wrong with the
air! 

If you REALLY want to pick on some one, leave the classic car drivers alone
and take on the people that are really doing NOTHING to contribute to clean
air!

I have been involved in several car clubs over the past 18 years, as a
member at large and as an officer in these clubs as well.  I own three cars
that fit into this area of being exempt from inspections and am grateful
for the passage of the bill that exempts me from the hassle and expense of
bi-annual inspections for vehicles that accumulate few miles and have never
failed inspection once brought into initial compliance at the time of
purchase. I think that your "analysis" of this situation, if you can call
it that, is severely flawed and insensitive! 

First, you are mistaken that these cars are exempt from complying with smog
requirements. IF you had done your homework and actually read the text of
the purported "watered down" bill that the legislative branch passed on
behalf of hobbyists, you would see for yourself that it is still illegal to
modify or remove smog equipment or even operate a non-complying vehicle.
ALL that this bill does, is remove the requirement for bi-annual
inspections! The grand total of all three of my cars annual mileage is
probably about 14K.  I am only one person so can only operate one car at a
time. The balance of the time, the other two cars sit quietly holding
concrete down.... NOT polluting anything! The only people that this bill
possibly hurt, was the small inspection stations that no longer get the
fees. However, these guys get plenty of mandatory business as it is so I
seriously doubt that we lost too many shops as a result of reduced
business. They have their own problems to deal with, like ripping off
little old ladies and people like my wife....  I now deal with these shops
and our cars needless to say.  Unscrupulous only begins to describe this
vermon... and we are "required" to be there for the taking, complements of
our system....


Second, you ARE talking hobbyists here owning these cars, NOT the homeless
and indigent with all of their possessions and a dog stuffed in a 1973
Caprice Estate Wagon running on 7 cylinders hanging out in the parking lot
of 7-11. You've seen 'em, I've seen 'em. Will we ever "fix" these cars to
the point of compliance??? I doubt it. It's too easy to get your new tags
from another car in the parking lot.... why mess with a smog check... can't
afford it anyway, nor the license fee.

Hobbyists like myself take GREAT pride in owning and possessing many fine
autos and enjoy keeping them in top tune! If they are running crappy, you
get no enjoyment from being unable to experience a fine running machine!
I've never heard anyone say "yah, my car was running real bad this weekend,
I like it that way and won't bother fixing it...."  Usually the opposite
occurs, with e-mails flying about what may be wrong and how can I fix it
'cuz it's driving me nuts not running properly!!!

If I put a thousand miles on a car in a year, should this then be subjected
to a retest after only two thousand miles???? (Tested every two years.)
This makes little sense.  Clearly, I am not addressing those that are
flagrantly violating the law by taking advantage of the fact that they do
not have to visit the inspection stations.... but then, these people got
around the laws in the past and would continue to do so in the future...
HOWEVER, if the very same car passes one of the roadside sniffers, it is
subject to the full compliance of the laws!  I don't think you understood
this! They can't run from this aspect of the system that, once failed,
requires them to then report to a "test-only" facility that is run by a
state licensed contractor, not your brother-in-law or "friend"....
Anything wrong noted by this facility MUST be corrected and then
reinspected again at the same facility. You will not be reissued new tags
until you get this blemish off of your record.


Third, just how many pre-74 cars are actually still on the road daily? I
believe that the legislative analysis showed that this was a small amount
and growing smaller daily as cars are naturally obsoleted, discarded, and
ultimately sent to the crushers, to be replaced by newer shinier versions.
If we discount the cars sitting at home, for weekend duty, just how much of
the grand total is actually affected?  I venture to say that it is very
little! A half of one percent would be too generous.  I travel the freeway
every day here (SF Bay area) and I would guess that the number of pre-74
vehicles is on the same order as motorcyclists, which represent a number so
small that I don't think anyone bothers to even include them in any
studies!  So, to accuse this minority amount of ALL the woes of the system
is flawed to say the least! This reminds me of the argument that the
helmetless motorcyclists cause a $60 Million debt to society due to
accidents. Bull puckey... more irresponsible garp from our finest... But I
digress.  Just go talk to a car dealer and find out how good business is!
There are MORE cars on the road NOW than there were when this bill you
refer to was passed.  Had anyone taken this fact into consideration?
Doesn't sound like it to me! 

Of the 10,000 cars selected for testing in the CARB study, how many that
failed were ones that were affected by this law going into effect???  There
is NO mention of the study' findings other than the fact that 10,000 cars
were selected at random...  I don't see any data here to support anything
that CARB says, other than that they selected 10,000 cars....    


Fourth, just how much has big business contributed to cleaning up the air
by scrapping pre 1980 cars????  This is the "buy back" program that I HOPE
you have heard of.  Take your old car in and get $500 for it. The car gets
ground up and another big business gets to purchase that "pollution credit"
and continue to pollute at the same magnitude as before, NEVER decreasing
THEIR contribution to the problem of air quality.  Purchasing cars that
were already dead or close to it is the goofiest thing I have ever heard
of!  What a bunch of snake-oil salesmen these guys were that sold this plan
to CARB!  Of all the people that I have spoken to about their cars that
they sold to these programs, NONE were driving the cars on the road. They
were sitting in the yard holding down weeds or in the driveway holding down
concrete.  Kids are done with the car now that they are done with college
and are off to new shiny import cars. Have you removed a car from the road?
No. Removed it out of the front yard or driveway? Yes. Was it polluting?
No. It wasn't being driven. Natural selection has removed the pollution
from the air in this case, NOT the big business that claims the "credit."
Jump back to the station wagon in 7-11.... are these people going to turn
in their car for $500? Heck no! You must have the car currently registered
to do that.... and I don't think that is the case..... besides, they can't
afford a newer car anyway.... they are stuck in a vicious circle that they
will never get out of, until the cops tow away their vehicle when they have
the unfortunate privilege to get pulled over.... and explain why they have
no paperwork to back up their shiny new 2000 tags.   All that this program
does, is to make it easier for big business to keep operating at status-quo
and keep classic parts out of the hands of the hobbyists that would like to
have them!  (In all fairness I have heard rumor of some recyclers
(wreckers) that do flag certain classic cars for attention by interested
clubs and persons, because they too are sensitive to the business that
surrounds classic cars and the fact that this program is a total sham!)


Fifth, you mentioned in the article that CARB is reporting this.... For
crying out loud Marla, this is the same board that approved the use of MTBE
without doing any sort of significant environmental impact study on the
matter!!!!  It took this board a simple matter of a vote to pollute our
water supplies yet it has taken the legislature and others YEARS to undue
this rather large screw up, and the removal of MTBE won't take effect for
TWO YEARS!!!  We now have two more years of polluting our resources to look
forward to as a result of this fine group of individuals.  Will they pay to
get the MTBE cleaned out of our systems??? No. We will.   This knee jerk
bunch of idiots is the last group that I would believe about anything.  I'd
like to see an independent study outline the effectiveness of the CARB
programs, NOT a CARB study. It's real easy to target other peoples work
(legislature) when your own work is coming up short! Push the blame
elsewhere... to the legislature... to the old car owners.... Couldn't be us
and our goofy programs that reward big business for removing non-polluting
cars from the system so that they can continue belching out garp into the
air...

  So, Marla, if you REALLY want to do yourself and the environment good,
don't attack a group of people that for the most part are really are
conscious of the environment and where they fit in, but go after the root
cause of the problems!!!
  Look deeper into the "buy back" program and you'll see quickly how this
program is seriously flawed every point along the way! (Gross violations
are noted in huge numbers of car club newsletters... reports of
non-functional cars being scrapped abound.)  HERE you will find the
pollution that is not being reduced, because the net result of this program
isn't doing a darned thing! Big business is still producing waste at the
same rate, and all we're doing is removing some visual pollution from the
neighborhoods!  Ask yourself this: IF we were successful in removing all of
the 1980 and earlier cars from the roads, what then would big business do?
There would be no more credits to purchase! They will STILL be producing
the same amount of pollutants as they were when this program started. I
certainly don't see an effort to stimulate their motivation to clean up
their act! Only once we run out of cars to scrap, will big business be
forced to clean up their act! Why can't they start now? Why do we instead
install a system that allows them to continue polluting at unreduced rates!

The new cars are cleaner every day!!! New cars put out waste that consists
of more water than anything...  I am amazed and in awe of what HAS been
done to clean up cars to date! 

Instead of giving credits to big business so that they can continue
polluting, how about investing more heavily into electric vehicles? We
really need to get the costs of this technology down to the point where it
becomes a no brainer to select these cars over the dino-powered versions
while standing in the showroom! At present, these electric cars represent
nothing more than a novel idea and a neato toy for people that are fairly
well off to begin with. Produce a Model-T electric car for the masses and
THEN we're talking some forward looking success to combatting pollution!
But, to put the development all on the car companies or small
inventors/entrepreneurs with no help is wrong. Make this technology cheap
and affordable and you WILL see people embracing it for the right reasons!

Look deeper into why more people are on the roads today than ever before!
Certainly this MUST be contributing in some manner to the problem! Why
aren't these people in mass transit!  (I'm not because I face a 20-30
minute commute or a 1.5-2 hour mass transit ride.... not rocket science to
figure that one out...)

Yes, eliminating the exemption "could" reduce the pollution amounts, but by
67 tons a day???? I doubt it. Even if all the older cars stayed off the
road for one day I doubt seriously that it would result in compliance!
There can't be that many old cars out there that are running that badly to
support these figures! I'd like to see direct evidence that points to the
old cars as the culprits here, not some agency that is "guarding it's own
hen house" so to speak.

  I don't think that the disparity figure of "67 Tons of emissions daily"
is being produced by my minority of fellow old car users even if we add
motorcycle emissions into this!!!! Analysis of the emissions shows
components of bus tires, charcoal particles from BBQing and lots of
dirt....  Figure out how much one old car (out of tune) is capable of
producing and then divide this into the 67 tons.... I'll bet that you find
that it's a number a WHOLE lot greater than the number of old cars that you
see on the road during your commute to work and keep in mind that not ALL
of us are out there polluting just because we're driving a classic
vehicle!!! (Most of us will be in compliance under the system!)  One does
not equal the other and I believe that this is where your assumption is
flawed by lumping all old cars into the "polluter" category.  I'd thank you
to not continue this sort of reporting practice in the future!  Just
because I ride a motorcycle and resemble a biker, doesn't make me one.


Thanks for your time!
Sincerely,

Steve Liebenow
765 Orkney Ave
Santa Clara, CA
I'm in the book.
VP Nor Cal Pantera Club
Member Nor Cal Cougar Club