DeTomaso Mailing List: August 2000, Message #89

> Is there some sort of problem related to the multigroove keeper design of
> the Cleveland valves???  Something is bugging me about this design... read
> it somewhere but do not recall it exactly..... If I don't need to replace
> the intake valves... I won't! 
> 
Yes, the multi-groove keepers are a loose fit to promote valve rotation 
but what they really promote is ventilated blocks when the valve slips 
out of its keeper.  A friend had two brand new sets of Ford valves 
giving to him.  Both sets destroyed engines within one season at the 
drags.  Crazy Dave's been a victim at least once.  There are special 
tight fitting aftermarket multi-groove keepers but that doesn't stop 
problem #2.  The stock valves are 2 piece, friction welded together.  
They like to separate as I found when I pulled the head of one out of 
my header pipe.  The result was a fist sized hole in my nice standard 
bore block.  

Buy a good set of standard 2V size single groove, single piece, valves 
and be happy.  Don't run 4V valves in the Aussie heads.  

> Just do the exhaust valves and seats.
> 
Why do the seats?  Here's a post from Dave Williams that sums it up.  
Dave is an engine builder and has his own valve grinding equipment and 
has seen a lot of heads and thinks the valve seat recession thing is mostly 
myth.  The cases he's seen have been traceable to other factors.  Anyway, 
here's the post:

"Inserted seats are for repair. They interfere with heat flow from the
valve; the 
ports have to be ground to blend the seat in; improper installation (can you

tell with your naked eye?) will let them come loose, with potential for 
catastrophe. The cutting necessary to install the seats weakens the head 
and can promote cracking, particularly if the head is subjected to higher
than 
stock pressures or heat, ie a high performance engine. 

You want inserted seats about as badly as you want a veneral disease. 

Most shops call them "hardened" seats; most inserts are plain old cast iron,

like they just carved out of your heads. True hard seats are Stellite and
they 
cost over $10 each, and they're righteous bastards to cut a seat on."

Not that Dave is referring to cast iron heads.  Aluminum heads and inserts 
work fine.

> Is the C302 aluminum Cleveland head out of production now?  And is it a
> viable intake for a 302sb?  Intakes?    These were the ones that took
> stock
> Ford parts to complete them....   
> 
I just sent you a post with the details.  Ford quit producing them but
Brodix 
has a clone available for around $2000 bare and unported.  Rumor is they 
are working on a pre-ported version.   Require special intakes but may be 
able to match certain versions of the heads to certain intakes.   

> Anyone got a set they wanna lose?
> 
No I'm keeping both sets of mine.

Dan Jones