DeTomaso Mailing List: August 2000, Message #9

Ivo wrote:

>I'm new to this list, and relatively new to DeTomaso's anyway, so I may 
be
asking some questions that have been asked before, or that may sound 
silly.
In any case, I'm saving my money now in order to buy a good DeTomaso
Deauville in a few years' time (BTW, I'm living in the Netherlands). 

>>>That's a good thing--I've been told that there are exactly six Deauvilles 
in the entire USA!

>I've
talked to several dealers and classic cars traders that have or had this
car, and they told me some conflicitng stuff that I hope you may have 
more
info on. Please let me know.

1) I was told that every Deauville is different. So a Deauville from, 
say,
1973 is incomparable to a 1980 Deauville. In order to get spare engine
parts of a 1980 Deauville you therefore have to find another 1980
Deauville. Is this true?

>>>Pure rubbish.  There were detail differences during the production run; 
early cars had smaller chrome bumpers while later cars had heavier units that 
were painted body color.  Things like that.  But fundamentally, the cars are 
the same--sheetmetal, chassis, suspension, glass etc.  

Later cars had different wheels, some different trim pieces, etc.  I think 
the heating/air conditioning systems changed somewhere along the way as well. 
 The Longchamp was divided into an early and late series and used different 
steering systems; since the Longchamp was built on a shortened Deauville 
chassis, it stands to reason that the same would be true of the Deauville, 
but that's a guess.

>2) Are there any good books on the history of the Deauville? 

>>>"DeTomaso:  The Man and Machines" by Wally Wyss has the most comprehensive 
coverage of the Deauville of any book I know, and that books' information is 
fairly sparse.  But you take what you can get!

>Or a decent
technical book (on the engine etc.)?

>>>The engine is a bog-standard Mustang 351 Cleveland.  Nothing cosmic there. 
 Mated to a standard Ford automatic transmission.  I believe there is a 
fully-illustrated factory parts manual, and an owner's manual, but probably 
no proper service manual available.

>3) Which other car manufacturers contributed parts to the Deauville 
(e.g.,
the back part is certainly derived from Alfa etc.)? I heard a number of 
20
one time.

>>>The rear suspension and differential are remarkably similar to all the 
Jaguars of the day.  The differential is the same (Dana 44 I believe) but the 
suspension bits and hubs are all DeTomaso-specific.  Identical to the 
Longchamp.  One of the front suspension A-arms is a Pantera part; the other 
is special to the Deauville/Longchamp.

Also, the later Maserati Quattroporte was apparently nothing more than a 
re-bodied Deauville, so suspension bits etc. should be the same.  As a matter 
of fact, if you squint your eyes, you'll realize that the Quattroporte is 
nothing but an extended, four-door Longchamp!

The engine/gearbox is Ford; the shift lever is also Ford (USA.)  Various bits 
and bobs were sourced from Ford of Europe's parts bins in an effort to keep 
costs under control (a compromise that designer Tom Tjaarda still resents to 
this day--the steering wheel in particular is horrendously ugly.)

>4) What should a decent Deauville cost (one that is in fine, top notch
working condition, and let's say it has driven 80000 miles)? I have 
seen a
1973 Deauville for approximately 10.000 Pounds and a 1980 Deauville for
25.000 Pounds. Of course there are country differences, but can someone
give me a rough estimate?

>>>In Europe, they seem to be dirt cheap.  British club member Tony Howse has 
THREE running Deauvilles and one parts car.  I think he's purchased some of 
his for 2000-3000 UK pounds.  I think if you pay $10,000 USD you're getting a 
top-rank car. 

Regardless of the asking price, Deauvilles are incredibly unpopular in Europe 
it seems, and the selling prices reflect this.  You should really get in 
touch with Tony; he doesn't have e-mail but I'll send you his telephone 
number if I can find it.

(He's really into his DeTomasos--he also has a Guara Barchetta, a 
limited-edition Guara set up for racing.)

>5) Italian cars are often rusty. How does the Deauville compare to say,
Alfa's or Lancia's (in general terms)?

>>>Probably about the same.  Each of Tony's cars has visible rust here and 
there--nothing serious, just typical Italian car rust as found in the UK.  I 
don't think they have the serious chassis rusting problems common to 
Panteras, but I do believe they can suffer from extensive sheetmetal rust, 
particularly in the rear fenders or trunk area if my memory is correct.

>This is all for now. I sincerely hope you can help me.

>>>We'll all do our best! :>)  For what it's worth, I spent an entire day a 
few years ago at Tony's house, photographing and driving in his Deauvilles.  
They are a curious mixture indeed.  They offer all the comfort and style of a 
Jaguar, but with the great honking roar of an American V-8.  His cars all 
have factory exhaust systems and mild motors, so they are fairly quiet.  One 
of his cars was originally built by a lunatic and had something over 500 
horsepower, and was virtually undriveable as a result.  He's since installed 
a milder motor and turned it into quite a nice car.

Steering is nice; power steering with a bit of numbness, but nothing like an 
American car--more like a Mercedes.  Brakes are terrific.  Cornering grip is 
impressive, but you're never in doubt that you're driving a car that weighs 
almost 4000 lbs.  Due to the weight, acceleration is far from Pantera-like, 
but it certainly accelerates as well as any Cadillac or Lincoln, probably 
better.

There are some really stupid design features; the cars have twin gas tanks 
with a selector switch to choose between them, but the tanks aren't linked.  
If either tank gets really low, a big glowing idiot light on the dash will 
illuminate; you could therefore run one tank until nearly empty, then have 
the entire remaining full tank left while still having to stare at the stupid 
light for another 200 miles.

Overall, they seem to be a really neat car.  About 90% of the overall design 
quality of a Jaguar, perhaps, with 10000% greater rarity.  Fixing the engine 
and gearbox is dirt cheap; fixing anything else costs a fortune.

Spare parts are still available in limited numbers from the factory, 
including new sheetmetal I believe.  Expect to pay an absolute fortune--you 
could easily pay as much for the front hood as you paid for your entire car!  
So insure it well to make sure that if it's involved in a minor accident, you 
can get it repaired and not just have the insurance company declare it a 
total loss and crush it. :<(

Regarding specific cars for sale:  I know of several for sale in France.  

"Berline Deauville 4 portes, tres bon etat, rare et fiable.  Tel 06 09 16 47 
64, FAX 01 47 01 00 75"

www.carclassic.com in France lists a bunch of DeTomasos and often lists 
Deauvilles and Longchamps.

Stephane Poux is the DeTomaso importer for France, and always has a bunch of 
DeTomasos for sale.  I had his number at one point but can't put my finger on 
it, but somebody else on this list should have it (Charlie McCall?)

A dealer in the UK specializes in DeTomasos; although he doesn't list any in 
his (small) advertisement, he may know of one or more for sale:  01564-702920 
is his number, although Tony Howse has his finger on the Deauville pulse in 
the UK and will be intimately familiar with literally every one in the 
country, so he would be your best source for information out there.

Finally, Swedish club president Mats Gorski owns a white Right-hand-drive 
Deauville and he'd be a good man to talk with regarding parts etc., as he's 
very much in-tune with the DeTomaso factory.

Good luck in your search, and please keep us posted! :>)

Mike