DeTomaso Mailing List: November 2000, Message #163

Hi Everyone,

My search has began and I just saw a 1972 pre-L. I understand that pantera 
owners are a family so I want to make sure I am fair and being treated 
fairly. Come to think of it maybe pantera owners are more than a family if we 
are all fair with one another 
:-) Anyway, I could use some help - my desire to own one means I may make 
some assumptions that are incorrect because I am so READY to adopt! Your 
experience and comments will save me from myself. 

Facts - 

Phone call revealed that this 72 is "100% no rust" owned for 13 years, 
cooling upgrades, he has never really had to do anything with it except 
change the oil and drive it. He said it was a driver though he rarely did and 
that with all drivers it wasn't perfect. Why are you selling it? "I am 
getting to old for it." So its not so......can this really happen? So, I take 
the 10 hour round trip investigation tour and here is what I find.

Body:

Good shape no dents dings or fading. Repainted in past 5 years, can see over 
spray on some rubber etc. Outside looked pretty good I thought, under didn't 
look as good. Rust has started on the bottom of the front spoiler area (the 
thicker stuff not just bubbles). The rear deck lid when opened showed signs 
of rust colored stains near the back that could be cleaned off. Bumpers that 
would need to be re plated "rust pit holes" nothing going through. Rocker 
panel driver side has some bubbles starting. A number of pieces of hardware 
looked rusty (screws mostly).

Interior:

Both doors VERY tight, hard to open. Smells a bit musty? Steering wheel cover 
needs replaced, gages cosmetically OK, fan controls could use some cosmetic 
help, shifter shaft rusty, knob needs replaced, parking brake collar rusty 
(works) Dash leather coming unglued on top (waves), other than that 
everything works (except the air-conditioning, needs a compressor he says).

Engine bay:

Dirty!!!! I understand he's comment now about never did anything with it. 
looks like we have a leak here. Looking under the rear we did have a leak and 
we decided one of the first places we would take the car would be to a lift. 
Airfilter (open type) seems to have oil in it and is filthy. I hurt for the 
car when I saw this area and wanted to bandage it's wounds and heal it.

The Test drive:

Started pretty well for a 32 degree morning (I didn't mention that this car 
is outside with a cover for 3 seasons and stored inside in the winter) I 
didn't ask that on the phone :-( Choke worked well engine sounded a bit rough 
with no obnoxious vibrations exhaust (rusty as it was) seemed to be holding 
it's own.

I had the owner drive it first so I could have a look around and listen for 
things. Seemed solid, seats really cupped the old butt (I can only speak for 
mine mined you) did hear a bit of a tapping at first (not to loud) not sure 
if it is valves or exhaust. He say's on longer trips a whistle sound starts 
and thinks it is a vacuum leak. Playing with the knobs everything seems to 
work. Was Sanyo the stock radio?

OK we are at a shop and lifting it up, seems these were friends and no one 
was offering an opinion, including the selling except to say that it is 
coming from the top here. I am no mechanic, but it did seem to be coming from 
the driver side valve cover gasket dripping down the side and finding a home 
from the pan back. Color of this oil seemed to be newer vs. black. I first 
thought this is good.....then realized that it could be bad seeing the 
condition of everything else (freshly changed maybe?) The lift reveal no 
other surprises and everything else seemed in used car condition.

My turn to drive it. Solid, firm, without rattles or vibration (what I 
considered out of the norm). 3rd gear seems to make some noise when shifting 
into it "repeatedly." I heard it with him a few times but seemed consistent 
when I drove it -- clutch was fully depressed and took time between shifts. 
After about 25 minutes of total car running time I thought the highway for 
acceleration would be nice. I took first gear slow but let it get to about 
4300 rpm's before shifting it to second - I got an uncomfortable look from 
the seller. I asked if he was OK and he shared he doesn't rev it that high as 
if this was abuse? I started thinking that the engine maybe in question. 
Pulled good -- but I really didn't push it. Needs tune up, etc., at a minimum 
to bring it back to life.

OK, if you have read this far chances are you desire to help -- why else 
would you listen to these ramblings? Except that you may be relating to one 
of your first considerations. 

Seller:

Nice guy sending mixed signals. I have no reason to question his honesty and 
I think the "no rust" thing was more about not paying attention than trying 
to be misleading. He was not going out of his way to sell me on the car by 
coming up with excuses or cheap fixes etc. I think he is right, it is a 
driver, and is not perfect. Our passions are a bit different -- he liked the 
car for what she is and I want to love the care for what she can become after 
a makeover. This being said I am thinking she may need more than a make over 
-- more like cosmetic surgery and years of therapy :-)

Bottom Line:

Is this the condition of a 72 pre- L priced at $20,000 Remember I am trying 
to be fair not trying to talk someone down (because he say's he will come 
down no more).

What do you think that I am in for -- if I buy? Would you buy it?
 
Thank you for your input in advance! I have learned so much here in just a 
few short weeks.

Ron