DeTomaso Mailing List: November 2000, Message #168

It's easy to be a long distance arm chair critic, but I'm nothing if not easy,
so
here's my opinion. Pass on this car. 20K is too much for a "project car." If you
can see rust in the obvious places, you can bet that there's a ton of it you
can't see. This car sounds like it is at least 15,000 short of a 30,000 car
(i.e.
it's at least 5,000 overpriced). What you have here is a car owned (and
neglected) by a non-enthusiast. As usual, he looks at the prices other Panteras
are commanding and thinks his is worth a similar amount. Be patient. The right
car at the right price WILL come along. When it does, you will know it and you
will pay more than you planned on spending. Make the right choice and you will
look back fondly on the experience for years, if not decades, to come. Make the
wrong choice and you will regret you ever had the thought of owning one. Take an
experienced enthusiast/owner with you to look at cars, if possible. Most of us
would be more than happy to offer assistance if time and distance allows. Get
the
POCA membership registry and look up the owners in your area. Call them on the
phone and pick their brains. Good luck.

Doug "Happy as a clam with my first (and only) Pantera purchase" Kelm



Concerts4u@aol.com wrote:

> Hi Everyone,
>
> My search has began and I just saw a 1972 pre-L. I understand that pantera
> owners are a family so I want to make sure I am fair and being treated
> fairly. Come to think of it maybe pantera owners are more than a family if we
> are all fair with one another
> :-) Anyway, I could use some help - my desire to own one means I may make
> some assumptions that are incorrect because I am so READY to adopt! Your
> experience and comments will save me from myself.
>
> Facts -
>
> Phone call revealed that this 72 is "100% no rust" owned for 13 years,
> cooling upgrades, he has never really had to do anything with it except
> change the oil and drive it. He said it was a driver though he rarely did and
> that with all drivers it wasn't perfect. Why are you selling it? "I am
> getting to old for it." So its not so......can this really happen? So, I take
> the 10 hour round trip investigation tour and here is what I find.
>
> Body:
>
> Good shape no dents dings or fading. Repainted in past 5 years, can see over
> spray on some rubber etc. Outside looked pretty good I thought, under didn't
> look as good. Rust has started on the bottom of the front spoiler area (the
> thicker stuff not just bubbles). The rear deck lid when opened showed signs
> of rust colored stains near the back that could be cleaned off. Bumpers that
> would need to be re plated "rust pit holes" nothing going through. Rocker
> panel driver side has some bubbles starting. A number of pieces of hardware
> looked rusty (screws mostly).
>
> Interior:
>
> Both doors VERY tight, hard to open. Smells a bit musty? Steering wheel cover
> needs replaced, gages cosmetically OK, fan controls could use some cosmetic
> help, shifter shaft rusty, knob needs replaced, parking brake collar rusty
> (works) Dash leather coming unglued on top (waves), other than that
> everything works (except the air-conditioning, needs a compressor he says).
>
> Engine bay:
>
> Dirty!!!! I understand he's comment now about never did anything with it.
> looks like we have a leak here. Looking under the rear we did have a leak and
> we decided one of the first places we would take the car would be to a lift.
> Airfilter (open type) seems to have oil in it and is filthy. I hurt for the
> car when I saw this area and wanted to bandage it's wounds and heal it.
>
> The Test drive:
>
> Started pretty well for a 32 degree morning (I didn't mention that this car
> is outside with a cover for 3 seasons and stored inside in the winter) I
> didn't ask that on the phone :-( Choke worked well engine sounded a bit rough
> with no obnoxious vibrations exhaust (rusty as it was) seemed to be holding
> it's own.
>
> I had the owner drive it first so I could have a look around and listen for
> things. Seemed solid, seats really cupped the old butt (I can only speak for
> mine mined you) did hear a bit of a tapping at first (not to loud) not sure
> if it is valves or exhaust. He say's on longer trips a whistle sound starts
> and thinks it is a vacuum leak. Playing with the knobs everything seems to
> work. Was Sanyo the stock radio?
>
> OK we are at a shop and lifting it up, seems these were friends and no one
> was offering an opinion, including the selling except to say that it is
> coming from the top here. I am no mechanic, but it did seem to be coming from
> the driver side valve cover gasket dripping down the side and finding a home
> from the pan back. Color of this oil seemed to be newer vs. black. I first
> thought this is good.....then realized that it could be bad seeing the
> condition of everything else (freshly changed maybe?) The lift reveal no
> other surprises and everything else seemed in used car condition.
>
> My turn to drive it. Solid, firm, without rattles or vibration (what I
> considered out of the norm). 3rd gear seems to make some noise when shifting
> into it "repeatedly." I heard it with him a few times but seemed consistent
> when I drove it -- clutch was fully depressed and took time between shifts.
> After about 25 minutes of total car running time I thought the highway for
> acceleration would be nice. I took first gear slow but let it get to about
> 4300 rpm's before shifting it to second - I got an uncomfortable look from
> the seller. I asked if he was OK and he shared he doesn't rev it that high as
> if this was abuse? I started thinking that the engine maybe in question.
> Pulled good -- but I really didn't push it. Needs tune up, etc., at a minimum
> to bring it back to life.
>
> OK, if you have read this far chances are you desire to help -- why else
> would you listen to these ramblings? Except that you may be relating to one
> of your first considerations.
>
> Seller:
>
> Nice guy sending mixed signals. I have no reason to question his honesty and
> I think the "no rust" thing was more about not paying attention than trying
> to be misleading. He was not going out of his way to sell me on the car by
> coming up with excuses or cheap fixes etc. I think he is right, it is a
> driver, and is not perfect. Our passions are a bit different -- he liked the
> car for what she is and I want to love the care for what she can become after
> a makeover. This being said I am thinking she may need more than a make over
> -- more like cosmetic surgery and years of therapy :-)
>
> Bottom Line:
>
> Is this the condition of a 72 pre- L priced at $20,000 Remember I am trying
> to be fair not trying to talk someone down (because he say's he will come
> down no more).
>
> What do you think that I am in for -- if I buy? Would you buy it?
>
> Thank you for your input in advance! I have learned so much here in just a
> few short weeks.
>
> Ron