DeTomaso Mailing List: June 2001, Message #27

John,

Are you adding fins to a steel pan? How are they being attached? The power
transfers you mention sound kind of high. Compare it to a stove that has
maybe 1 kW or so per pot. The stove gets glowing red if there's nothing on
it. I'd say 200 W sounds more likely than 2000 W.

Tomas

----------
> Från: John Bentley <jab@cisco.com>
> Till: Multiple recipients of list <detomaso@realbig.com>
> Ämne: Re: Race Oil & coolers
> Datum:  den 31 maj 2001 20:10
> 
> I had an ME friend do the back of the envelope analysis and if you add 1 
> inch fins spaced 1 inch apart to the bottom of the pan, you would triple 
> the amount of heat removed from the pan.  That would equate to an
increase 
> in power from about 1970 watts to about 5784 watts.  That is a
significant 
> amount of heat transfer!  His guess is a reduction in oil temp of tens of

> degrees.
> 
> When I get my new engine, I will run some experiments.  I'll collect air 
> temp, oil temp, vehicle speed and water temp data before and after adding

> the fins.  More later.......
> 
> JB
> 
> 
> At 07:37 PM 5/29/2001 -0400, Mr ken green wrote:
> >Like a lot of things, it should be a matter of degree,
> >not a will work or won't work. It sounds like the oil
> >is maybe 50 degrees hotter than the coolant. If an
> >aluminum heat sink is bonded to the side of an oil
> >pan, and under-car air is vented toward the heat sink,
> >there has to be some reduction in oil temperature. If
> >it's 2 degrees, it's not worth the trouble, but if it
> >will drop the oil temperature from 260 degrees F to
> >maybe 240, it might be worth looking into. There is a
> >pretty big temperature gradient to work with here, and
> >the air will be moving really fast, so maybe there is
> >a chance to do a back of the envelope analysis?
> >
> >Ken
> >
> >
> >--- Gray Gregory <rgg@gregorycook.com> wrote:
> > > I definitely agree that it's no substitute for an
> > > oil cooler. the question
> > > is would it have any effect at all.
> > >
> > > Gray
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Cal Eustaquio" <catman351@digitalputty.com>
> > > To: "Multiple recipients of list"
> > > <detomaso@realbig.com>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 4:48 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Race Oil & coolers
> > >
> > >
> > > > For some reason, I'm a little iffy on the
> > > effective surface area a
> > > > finned pan would have on the oil temp. You take a
> > > look at some of the
> > > > available oil coolers and their surface area seems
> > > to be a bit more
> > > > significant in terms of the amount of coil and
> > > fins available to cool
> > > > the oil. Cal. #2428.
> > > >
> > > > ---- Original Message ----
> > > > From: rgg@gregorycook.com
> > > > To: detomaso@realbig.com
> > > > Subject: Re: Race Oil & coolers
> > > > Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 17:18:58 -0400
> > > >
> > > > >Charlie,
> > > > >
> > > > > my 67 Ferrari has a finned aluminum oil pan and
> > > I've wondered too
> > > > >if that
> > > > >would help the Pantera.
> > > > >
> > > > >Gray
> > > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > > >From: "Charlie Mccall"
> > > <Charlie.Mccall@haworth.com>
> > > > >To: "Multiple recipients of list"
> > > <detomaso@realbig.com>
> > > > >Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2001 5:49 PM
> > > > >Subject: Re: Race Oil & coolers
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >> This reminds me of something I've been
> > > wondering for a while.
> > > > >There are
> > > > >many
> > > > >>  motorcycle engines, and a few cars, that rely
> > > only on air
> > > > >cooling. As I'm
> > > > >sure everyone
> > > > >>  knows, they have tons of deep fins to give
> > > lots of surface area
> > > > >to allow
> > > > >maximum
> > > > >>  cooling. That being so, why aren't oil pans
> > > finned? It would
> > > > >obviously
> > > > >not replace an
> > > > >>  oil cooler, but a finned oil pan, especially
> > > if it is getting
> > > > >some good
> > > > >airflow, ought to
> > > > >>  make a measurable difference, with no increase
> > > in moving parts of
> > > > >potential for failure.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Could it be because pans are usually stamped
> > > and not cast, and
> > > > >therefore
> > > > >it would be
> > > > >>  tricky to add the fins? Someone would have
> > > tried it by now if it
> > > > >worked,
> > > > >so why won't
> > > > >>  it?
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Charlie McCall
> > > > >> 1972 DeTomaso Pantera #3847 (for sale)
> > > > >> 1985 DeTomaso Pantera GT5-S #9375
> > > > >> "Raising Pantera Awareness across Europe"
> > > > >> http://briefcase.yahoo.com/gt5s_1985
> > > > >>
> > > > >> >>> Mr ken green <keninsocal@yahoo.com>
> > > 05/26/01 10:16PM >>>
> > > > >> I assume anyone worried about oil has a 10
> > > quart pan.
> > > > >> Given that is the case, the pan has 2 large
> > > flat
> > > > >> sides, and very hot oil inside. Looks like
> > > about 1 1/2
> > > > >> to 2 inches beween between the pan and the
> > > chassis (my
> > > > >> engine is out, so I might be off on this).
> > > Based on
> > > > >> htis,I have a couple ideas.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> 1) It would be real easy to bond a heat sink to
> > > one
> > > > >> side. and maybe do something to direct some of
> > > the
> > > > >> under car air in that direction. This might be
> > > really
> > > > >> easy to test. With a 150 degree temperature
> > > gradient,
> > > > >> it might work. The problem is that there is
> > > probably
> > > > >> only about an inch to use here.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> 2) A more interesting approach might be to bond
> > > a flat
> > > > >> fluid containing chamber to the side of the
> > > pan, and
> > > > >> run a couple lines for the fluid to a simple
> > > radiator
> > > > >> device. I know there have been refigerators
> > > made with
> > > > >> no moving parts. If the same method was used,
> > > we could
> > > > >> get a fluid to circultate with no pump. This
> > > doesn't
> > > > >> require touching the engine oil or coolant, so
> > > a
> > > > >> failure would have minumim consequences. I
> > > think an
> > > > >> inch thickness would be OK for this.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> 2a) Maybe this can be done with just some kind
> > > of
> > > > >> simple convection based process?
> > > > >>
> > > > >> 2b) What about a heat pipe (or is that a
> > > variety of
> > > > >> sky hook?)
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Anybody have ideas on how to make #2 work?
> > > > >>
> > > > >> 3) Like 2, but use a little electric pump on a
> > > > >> thermostat.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Ken (was a systems engineer, not a thermo guy)
> > > > >>
> > > > >> --- brockctella@juno.com wrote:
> > > > >> > I'm still looking
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > On Fri, 25 May 2001 17:58:03 -0400 Pedro
> > > Martini
> > > > >> > <martinirace@yahoo.com>
> > > > >> > writes:
> > > > >> > > I am still looking for first hand
> > > experience from
> > > > >> > > racers so same question as before - but
> > > this time
> > > > >> > the
> > > > >> > > subject is on engine motor oil and engine
> > > motor
> > > > >> > oil
> > > > >> > > coolers for engurance races like Silver
> > > State.
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > What you think is the most effective race
> > > oil and
> > > > >> > oil
> > > > >> > > cooler for this application?
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > What experience have you personally found
> > > in
> > > > >> > reducing
> > > > >> > > your oil temp if any, by using synthetic
> > > motor oil
> > > > >> > in
> > > > >> > > races and what improvement have you found
> > > using
> > > > >> > which
> > > > >> > > mfg. oil?  Provide the temp. recordings if
> > > you
> > > > >> > > measured them before or after.
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > And what improvment did you realize if any,
> > > using
> > > > >> > an
> > > > >> > > oil cooler and what mfg. oil cooler did you
> > > use?
> > > > >> > And
> > > > >> > > what do you think is the best oil cooler
> > > > >> > application
> > > > >> > > out there on the market right now?
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > You may respond to me off-line if you wish.
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > Thanks,
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > Pete "The Kid" Martini
> > > > >> > > Team Pantera Racing
> > > > >> > > If you are not on the edge you are taking
> > > up
> > > > >> > space.
> > >
> >=== message truncated ===
> >
> >
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