NO MORE COOLING PROBLEMS - JUST ADD CAPACITY AND RE-DESIGNRe:[DeTomaso] Stock fan output vs. Flex-a-lite

Sun Dec 3 12:52:22 EST 2006

The rest of you are stewing in your own juices.  (just kidding)
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Bentley (jab)" <jab at cisco.com>
To: "Mad Dog Antenucci" <teampantera at yahoo.com>
Cc: <detomaso at realbig.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 10:51 AM
Subject: RE: NO MORE COOLING PROBLEMS - JUST ADD CAPACITY AND
RE-DESIGNRe:[DeTomaso] Stock fan output vs. Flex-a-lite


> CrazyDaWg,
>
> You've chosen the $15,000 solution.  Nice!  What about the rest of us?
>
> JB
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]
> On Behalf Of Mad Dog Antenucci
> Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 9:28 AM
> To: Scott Couchman; mikeldrew at aol.com; JDeRyke at aol.com;
> tborcich at msn.com; detomaso at realbig.com
> Subject: NO MORE COOLING PROBLEMS - JUST ADD CAPACITY AND RE-DESIGN
> Re:[DeTomaso] Stock fan output vs. Flex-a-lite
>
> Scotty,
>   Beam me up...I don't think there is any intelligent thought on this
> List anymore
>
>   I think this discussion is a a mutant point from outter space. You
> slackers are making me sick with all this talk about stock fans vs
> flex-a-lite. ;-]
>
>   Since D*ck Drenske re-plumbed my cooling system and added the Ron
> Davis NASCAR radiator I don't have any cooling problems at ANY speed at
> ANY time! Street or race.
>
>   I averaged 148 MPH and ran up to 177.6 MPH at the Silver State in
> Sept. Fan didn't come on. Finish line temps 175f/water & 185f/oil. Think
> oil temp popped up to 200F at WOT but no higher.......LarryK double
> checked temps with thermal gun at finish line and water temp variance
> was +/- 3-4 degrees more at heads and rad.
>   Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!
>
>   Where's my flamethrower....you guys are getting out of hand.
>
>   Mad Dawg Antenucci
>   Team Pantera Racing
>   "If it was easy you'd do it"
>
>   P.S. The Brazilian girls donated a Flex-a-lite fan to JB. We ducttaped
> it to a pole and used it to stay cool
>
>   ==============================================
>
>   Scott Couchman <scottcouchman at yahoo.com> wrote:
>   FWIW.....I spent some time at SEMA talking with after-market radiator
> and fan suppliers concerning overheating issues I have with my 5.0
> Mustang when driving ORR at speeds above 125mph. There was a lot of
> conflicting information/opinions, but one of the comments that made
> sense to me was that pusher fans are pushing cool air, while sucker fans
> are sucking warm air. Cool air is easier/more efficient to push than
> warm air is to pull.
>
> mikeldrew at aol.com wrote:
> Jack wrote:
>
> We've also found sucker-fans (behind the rad rather than pushers from
> the front) to be much more efficient than
> pushers, and another efficiency increase comes when suckers are
> combined with a
> full shroud that forces air flow through the entire rad core, not just
> two spots
> directly in front of or behind the fans.
>
> >>>It's worth mentioning that this shroud has both advantages and
> disadvantages. It improves the efficiency of the fans at lower speeds,
> but can radically decrease the effectiveness of the radiator at higher
> speeds, because it causes a restriction--the relatively small openings
> prevent air from flowing through and out of the radiator at elevated
> speeds.
>
> Johnny Woods found this out when he installed the Flex-A-Lite unit on
> his Pantera. He routinely drives around France at 150 mph, and he
> found that at triple-digit speeds, his car would start to overheat, but
> it ran fine below 100 mph, which is a classic symptom of an airflow
> problem. He wound up cutting the shroud apart and making an elaborate
> series of trap doors/flaps, which blow open when the pressure inside
> the shroud is greater than that on the outside. At lower speeds, when
> the fan is spinning, it is creating vacuum which sucks the trap doors
> closed. In fact, he may have gotten the idea from me, as this is an
> OEM arrangement used by VW on all their water-cooled cars, and I
> described the mechanism in use on my Sciroccos to him when he asked me
> about his problem.
>
> If you aren't in the habit of cruising at 100+, then it's probably
> never going to be an issue for you, and you can probably get away with,
> and in fact be quite happy with the Flex-A-Lite suckers. Having said
> that, the non-shrouded Spal fans that Wilkinson sells work extremely
> well too, and flow enough air to render a shroud unnecessary. Take
> your pick.
>
> Installing a fan setup with the shroud in front of the radiator is the
> stupidest thing I've ever heard of--yet Flex-A-Lite markets some of
> their fans thusly.
>
> Another point Jack made bears repeating--many fan manufacturers sell
> their fans with a cheesy mounting kit that relies on custom zip-ties
> that pass through the radiator core, to secure it to the radiator.
> This is NOT a good idea, and more than one Pantera owner has found out
> the hard way that road vibration etc. will cause the fans to move
> around on the radiator, and the zip ties act like little saws, slowly
> cutting the radiator apart until it leaks. IF you can find no better
> way to secure it, get a small-diameter aluminum or brass tube,
> carefully feed it through the fins, and then pass the zip ties through
> the tube. That MIGHT prevent a leak--but in my view it's no substitute
> for a proper mounting system, which utilizes brackets which are
> brazed/welded/whatevered to the radiator frame itself, without actually
> touching the fragile core. To me, that alone justifies the added
> expense of buying a package from a Pantera vendor, rather than saving a
> few bucks and ordering the ingredients from Summit etc.
>
> Cheers!
>
> Mike
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> Mad Dawg Antenucci
> Team Pantera Racing
>   The 1st & still the only vintage race team in open road racing
> www.teampanteraracing.com
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