FW: [DeTomaso] Group IV Taillight recommendation/ BRIGHTNESS.

Sun Jul 2 11:01:05 EDT 2006

I've tried several variations of LED replacements for 1157 and 1156
incadescent bulbs.  The first set I purchased off the shelf at AutoZone for
~ $7 each.  They provided what I and other impartial observers viewed as
clearly a higher intensity light.  The downside was that the LED bulbs were
mounted in a central cluster in the bulb housing and focused the light
pretty much in a single direction.  As Ron mentioned, these LED bulbs didn't
really use the broad shape of the reflector.  Still, I continued to use the
LED bulbs vs the old incadescent bulbs because they were brighter and more
importantly the LEDs also produce almost zero heat and current draw - good
for 30 year old electrical systems.

But after a little internet searching, I was able to locate some alternative
LED bulbs.  The latest set have 18 LED pointing out and six more aimed in
the opposite direction (24 LEDs total per bulb) with the rear LED light
passing through the clear plastic housing and on to the reflector.  These
LEDs are even brighter and also do a much better job of spreading light
across the surface of the reflector.  I've also replaced the side marker
lights with high intensity LED bulbs with very good results.  I'm planning
to replace the instrument light bulbs with LEDs also but haven't quite
gotten around to that yet.

There are a couple of glitches involved in using LED bulbs exclusively,
however.  First, the LED bulbs use so little current (almost zero) that the
stock turn signal relay may not function.  If this happens, you'll need to
replace the original flasher relay with an electronic version.  Second, my
Pantera (and everyone else's too I suspect) has an odd grounding circuit
between the turn signal bulbs.  If I replace all four 1157 bulbs (the front
and rear dual filament bulbs) with 1157 equivalent LEDs, the LED bulbs on
all four corners flash in unison when the turn signal lever is activated.
So at the moment, I'm only running LED bulbs in the rear and the original
incadescent bulbs in the front.

I've been meaning to pose the turn signal flashing issue to one of the
electon gurus on the list who can tell me how to get around it, but until
now had neglected to.  So SOBill, any insite here?

If you're planning to swap to LEDs, be sure that you buy LED bulbs that are
the same color as the lense that the light must pass through.  Any other
color (including white) will result in the lense blocking a significant
amount of the LED light generated.  Red LEDs go with red lenses and amber
LEDs go with amber lenses.  Also, be aware that the LED bulbs are much more
expensive than traditional incadescent bulbs.  Personally I was motivated to
reduce the current and heat load on my electrical system without loosing any
night time visiblity, so the expense was worth it to me.   And after all
we're all mostly driving around $35k cars, so 60 bucks for light bulbs is a
small piece in the overall scheme of things - especially if I can reduce the
wear and tear on my electrical system.

If you're interested, the LED parts list is below.  I purchased the LED
bulbs online from www.superbrightleds.com, though there are other LED
vendors out there as well.

Front
2 each of 1157-A24-12V-WV (24 LED amber, wide angle, bayonette mount)

Rear Turn, Brake, Tail
2 each of 1157-R24-12V-WV (24 LED red, wide angle, bayonette mount)
2 each of 1156-R24-WV (24 LED red, wide angle, bayonette mount)

Side Marker Lights
WLED-A6 (6 LED amber, wedge base)
WLED-R6 (6 LED red, wedge base)

Electronic Flasher
CF13 GL-02

Dave Bell

-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
[mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]On Behalf Of
pantera3641 at azballistics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 9:03 AM
To: detomaso; Dickruzzindesign at aol.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Group IV Taillight recommendation/ BRIGHTNESS.

I have purchased and tried numerous LED bulbs that are direct replacements
for the 1157 and 1156 regular filament bulbs that the car is equipped with.
Some were 24 LEDs, and some were 36 LEDs per bulb.   In my opinion they were
not as bright as the regular bulbs.  This is because our tail lamps are
designed to reflect off the chrome finish of the interior of the bucket
while LEDs  project straight out.  You can get LEDs that will reflect other
than straight out but they do not provide enough light to reflect off the
bucket interior chrome.

In my case I have the low profile Amerisport rear wing which has a third
taillight  of LEDs and is quite visible.

Others have put a third taillight just below the roof line in the rear.

The other reason LEDs do not appear as bright on the Pantera as they do on
modern cars is due either to the thickness of the red lens, and/or the
lenses are not designed for use with LED bulbs.

To increase the brightness of my filament bulbs, I removed the lenses and
lined the interior of the taillight bucket with chrome vinyl and the
increase in brightness is not substantial, but it is better.

Ron Scott
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Dickruzzindesign at aol.com
  To: detomaso at realbig.com
  Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 6:09 AM
  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Group IV Taillight recommendation/ BRIGHTNESS.

  There was some discussion a while back about LED and other new
technologies
  to improve the brightness of tailamps in Panteras.

  I feel increasingly that this is a real safety issue as modern cars with
  larger tailamps have defined an expectation for lighting that is not
fulfilled by
  older ones.

  A Mangusta or Pantera is enough of a distraction on the road to other
drivers
  without   considering the handicap of small tail and brake lamps. I do not
  want to be rear-ended.

  I think the addition of one or two LED high level stop lamps would be a
real
  improvement, but upgrading the brightness of the tail and stop lamps, I
feel
  is a must as well.

  Has anyone done that successfully?

  The parabolas of lamps of all kinds are designed around the lamp filament
to
  meet required standards of brightness. That means that halogen conversions
  probably have the best chance for lighting the entire lamp as the original
bulb
  does. I see now that some LED lamps claim to do that.

  I would like to see this group arrive at a recommendation based on the
  experiences of the members.

  Dick Ruzzin
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