[DeTomaso] Distrubutor Gear Chewed Up

[Asa Jay Laughton]

You know Thomas,  I installed a Crane hydraulic roller cam in my last 
351c rebuild, and I didn't have any problems at all.  Of course, I'm 
going back over my notes and photos, and I do not believe I used an ARP 
bolt for it.  It looks like I used the stock bolt that came off the 
original cam and it worked just fine.  I also used a Pete Jackson gear 
drive for the timing set.

So would the stock bolt have worked?  I got confused somewhere in all 
the emails.

Asa Jay

Thomas Tornblom wrote:

> Hookay, just off the phone with Crane tech, and I seriously recommend 
> anyone installing a Crane roller cam, solid or hydraulic, to check that 
> there is enough clearance when installing the timing gear.
> 
> They have checked, and ALL their roller cores are made like this, and 
> they recommend running a fully threaded bolt.
> 
> I have also measured the thickness of the Rollmaster timing gear, a 
> CS3085, with a Torrington thrust bearing, and it is almost identical to 
> the old cast iron manley timing gear I used before, and also almost 
> identical to the old Ford silent gear.
> 
> Anyone using a stock Ford or ARP 154-1002 Cam bolt kit is very likely to 
> have problems with this. Particularly if you are not installing the 
> eccentric, and particularly with the ARP kit, as the ARP washer is just 
> 0.12" thick, while the stock Ford washer is 0.23". With the ARP kit 
> there is no way that the timing gear will be properly clamped, eccentric 
> installed or not.
> 
> I did not get through to them that I believe their cores are wrong. That 
> will probably take someone with better arguing skills.
> 
> They did not recommend drilling out or modifying the cam. They said that 
> that would throw it out of balance, which seems like a pretty daft 
> argument to me. I would be drilling in the center of the cam, where 
> balance would have no effect at all, and it is not like I would remove 
> any significant amount of material. The cam would likely have to rev 
> around 100 krpm before balance would be a factor at all.
> 
> I have BCC:ed them on this mail I would like to suggest that they change 
> their cores to accommodate more clearance. I urge them to buy an ARP 
> 154-1002 Cam bolt kit, which is very likely to go into many engine 
> builds, and also a Rollmaster CS3085 timing gear set, which is probably 
> one of the best timing sets on the market, and try to get that to work 
> with their roller cam cores. I don't think they will get the ARP bolt to 
> work with any timing gear.
> 
> If they still believe that one should use a fully threaded bolt, then I 
> suggest that they add one to each cam, or recommend some brand. I also 
> suggest that they add a warning notice to their cam installation 
> instructions.
> 
> I will most likely use the Allen head bolt I bought yesterday, together 
> with the thick Ford washer. It has just a 0.4" non-threaded section. The 
> only thing that makes me slightly uneasy is that it is a Taiwanese bolt, 
> F K E, but it appears to be a solid bolt, and I bought at a shop that I 
> believe steers clear of junk.
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Thomas
> 
> 
> Asa Jay Laughton wrote:
> 
>> Okay, so bolt it on with the fuel pump eccentric in place and see if 
>> that makes a difference.  If so, then just run with the eccentric in 
>> place.  It's light enough and as long as you aren't running a fuel 
>> pump off it, there won't be any load.
>>
>> Asa Jay
>>
>> Thomas Tornblom wrote:
>>
>>> Daniel C Jones wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thomas,
>>>>
>>>> I've not seen that problem but I've not seen my cam, either.  I had it
>>>> directly sent to Dave Williams.  Dave, let us know what you find when
>>>> you assemble the engine.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Crane is investigating the problem, including chasing up the blue 
>>> prints.
>>>
>>> They said they see three potential causes:
>>>
>>> 1) The blueprints for the core are wrong
>>> 2) The vendor making the cores did a mistake
>>> 3) The guy at crane finishing my cam did a mistake
>>>
>>> The tech guy at Crane checked around the tech department, and they 
>>> had had no such problems from other customers, or so they say.
>>>
>>> My problem may be aggravated by the fact that I'm not installing the 
>>> fuel pump eccentric. Using the stock Ford bolt and washer, plus the 
>>> eccentric would potentially avoid the problem, or at least hide it.
>>>
>>> I can imagine it will be a hit or miss with the combination of bolt 
>>> and washer, timing gear brand, using the fuel pump eccentric or not.
>>>
>>> I am contemplating drilling the threads about 1/2" deeper into the 
>>> core, with the cam still in the block. I would prefer not having to 
>>> remove the timing gear again as it is new and is really tight.
>>>
>>> Anyone know how hard these cores are? Would a plain drill bit in a 
>>> power drill work?
>>>
>>> Anyway, Crane said they would get back to me today.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dan Jones
>>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Thomas
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 6/1/06, Thomas Tornblom <Thomas.Tornblom at hax.se> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Speaking of steel roller cams, I just ran into an unforeseen problem
>>>>> today with my new Crane hydraulic roller cam. The threads for the cam
>>>>> gear bolt starts way too early, which makes the unthreaded part of the
>>>>> bolt shank bottom out before clamping the gear properly.
>>>>>
>>>>> It was just by sheer luck that I noticed. I got a box with random arp
>>>>> bolts from Summit today, and one of them was a new cam bolt. The
>>>>> supplied washer is slightly thinner than the stock washer, and when I
>>>>> tried to bolt down the gear, the bolt wasn't even close to reach the
>>>>> washer before it couldn't be threaded anymore.
>>>>>
>>>>> I compared it to the old cast iron flat tappet Crane cam, and the
>>>>> threads starts about 0.78" down the hole, and the bolt can be threaded
>>>>> almost to when the bolt head reaches the cam, if no gear is in 
>>>>> place. On
>>>>> the new cam the threads starts 0.31" down the hole.
>>>>>
>>>>> Using the old bolt I get about 1/4 turn after the bolt touches the
>>>>> washer before the bolt bottoms out in the cam core.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is this a common problem, and are there any special short bolts for 
>>>>> this?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thomas
>>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>
> 
> 

-- 
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    Asa Jay & Shelley Marie
    Laughton - Spokane, WA
      1973 Pantera L 5533
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