Ground Effects Re: [DeTomaso] Race Tires and wheels

Mon Jun 12 23:17:12 EDT 2006

Hey Pete!
  Short answer is yes.  
  I can't take any credit for the suspension work or the alignment work. That was 'all' Dick Drenske on the cooling, hood and suspension mods. Lowering the Pantera all the way around, adding the 4" inches of heavy rubber belt on the sides and to the front end as well as lowering the front end spring rates 50 pounds was an improvement over what I was using. The rubber belt on the bottom of the air dam was maybe half an inch off the road and was expected to sacrafice itself during the run but I only got 17 miles down the road before the alt./water pump belt broke.  

  Reducing air under the car thereby reducing lift and improving handling at high speed was the ultimate goal and that was a noticable improvement.   I also found a new race alignment guy who tweeked final alignment settings.  The caster was already 5+ degrees and Jack and Bob others have already spoke to the advantages of increased positive caster. Final camber was near zero in the back 

  I'm not sure how much of an advantage the carbon fibre 'Dawg-Flap' was which shouldn't be confused with a real Gurney flap......but my goal was again to significantly reduce front end under hood pressure but also not to have to torch or cut the front area bulkhead if I could help it because the air dam and rubber belts would all be removed after the ORR. 

  Definately the hood does reduce under hood pressure but if  the bulkhead was cut open and the flap was moved back another +/- 12-18" inches more on the hood  I think it would be more effective. Hoping to return to Silver State in Sept. with a new engine to find out.

  The Goodyear dot race tires last year were available from "Shelby Goodyear Race Tires" in L.A (323-770-1280)....you've got 17/18 rims right? I know you are still out at Bragg and Fatal-ville but if you're still planning to head back to the left coast for the SS in Sept what do you still need to do the Pantera? Anything we can help you with out here until you get back?

  md 

  PEDRO MARTINI <martinipd at hotmail.com> wrote:
  Mad Dawg,

Did you notice any improvement in handling before you broke at the NORC in 
May? Any comment on how effective the ground effects and other suspension 
changes were that you and Dick made to the Pantera?

Also where did you buy the Goodyear dot race tires? They don't seem to be 
for sale or available to the general public.

PM

>From: Mad Dog Antenucci 
>To: RCBSONS1 at aol.com, MikeLDrew at aol.com, kirby.schrader at gmail.com
>CC: jab at cisco.com, msm at portata.com, detomaso at realbig.com
>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Race Tires and wheels
>Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 20:53:44 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Definately agree one size does not fit all. All the factors you, Kirby and 
>others have mentioned are all valid. How you measure improvement is 
>relative. Over the last 20+ years I have tried pretty much every available 
>wheel and tire combination on the Pantera in street, open track and open 
>road race competition. That included running stock 7 & 8" Campy's on P7's 
>and a tire Bob and I both loved was the BFG R-1's which are no longer in 
>production....Then I experimented with 15/16" and 15/17" and then 16/17 
>finally finding the best handling came from the Goodyear GS-CS DOT race 
>tire at the expense of increased RPM...definately the 'best" handling track 
>and ORR tire. The new Y-rated BFG tires I am running now are an improvement 
>over the Michelin (Sport Pilot)and Pirelli P-Zero's but do not handle as 
>well as the Goodyear dot race tires.
>
> I'll add that the cheapest modfication to my Pantera turned out to be 
>the single major improvement which was the mods to the front end which 
>gave 5+ degrees of caster which dramatically improved high speed handling. 
>A close second would be adding the delrin bushings on the front end and 
>the first question everyone asks is, "did it improve handling and is the 
>handling harsh with the delrin bushings?" The answer is I noticed an 
>improvement in handling over the rubber or the poly bushings right away and 
> the delrin bushings believe it or not did not in any way seem to hurt 
>ride comfort over the poly or rubber bushings.
>
> Also decreased spring rates on the front from 450 to 400 lbs which 
>reduced understeer and improve handling in corners. I've run the Pantera 
>with and without rake and the 'best' arrangement for me was having the ride 
>height set as low as possible on all 4-corners.
>
> I also was happy to find the narrower 18x9.5" rear wheels and 17x8" 
>fronts worked real well.....like Bob I found the increased side wall height 
>on the back end was an improvement.
>
> Save the rake for the yard or Bonneville! ;-]
> fwiw
>
> md
>
>
> RCBSONS1 at aol.com wrote:
> I TEND TO AGREE WITH KIRBY. MY CAR HAS ALL THE BRACING
>UPPERS AND LOWERS AND NOW HAS A "WELDED IN 4 POINT CAGE" WHICH
>TENDS TO BRACE THE CAR EVEN FURTHER. I DID GO TO A 1" TALLER
>TIRE IN THE BACK FROM 30 SERIES TO 35 WHICH GAVE ME A TALLER
>SIDE WALL TO FLEX A LITTLE MORE (SOFTENS THE BACK END) THAN LAST YEAR AND
>THEN I
>LOWERED THE FRONT TIRE BY 1" BY GOING FROM 45 TO 40 I BELEIVE
>IF MEMORY SERVES ME RIGHT. I WANTED MORE RAKE IN THE CAR.
>THIS ALONG WITH ALL THE OTHER THINGS
>INCLUDING HIGHER SPRING RATES, DOT ROAD RACE TIRES VS TREADED
>TIRES THE YEAR BEFORE AT THE TRACK REALLY SEEMS TO MAKE THE CAR
>NEUTRAL AND VERY EASY TO DRIVE WHICH TO ME MAKES IT FAST. I DON'T
>SEEM TO WORRY ABOUT THE REAR END WANTING TO COME AROUND AND
>DON'T HAVE A FRONT END PUSH. WHEN I CAN GET MORE TRACK TIME I WILL
>THEN MAYBE PLAY WITH REBOUND AND DAMPENING BUT MIGHT NOT BE SMART
>ENOUGH OR A GOOD ENOUGH DRIVER TO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE. I TEND TO
>ADJUST TO THE CAR IN MY DRIVING STYLE IF IT IS CLOSE.
>
>BOB
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