[DeTomaso] 2342 factory Group 4 pedigree
Veloce
Veloce at adelphia.net
Tue Mar 14 08:49:38 EST 2006
Patrick,
Walter Dethier, the owner of the Warhol car, does not do email but he is
very accessible by phone. Walter has compiled a lot of the history of this
car - you would enjoy talking to him, if you have not already met him.
We have quite a few pictures of this car on the New England Pantera web
site:
http://panteraownersnewengland.com/warhol_car.htm
At this time the site is optimized for broadband and Internet Explorer. It
may take awhile to download the slide show but it is worth the wait. In
the near future we will load some profiles of local members and their cars.
Since Walter is a true enthusiast with several notable Panteras we will
provide additional photos and background at that time.
Best regards,
Forest Majors
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Hals" <patrickhals at skynet.be>
To: <detomaso at realbig.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 7:06 AM
Subject: [DeTomaso] 2342 factory Group 4 pedigree
> Hello
> I was recently looking at the website of Pantera factory Group 4 VIN 2342.
> http://program-motorsports.com/page2.html
> This car won its class in the 1000 km of Monza in 1972.
> Does anyone know the rest of the history of this car ?
> Many thanks
> Patrick
> Candy # 2862
> See you at Le Mans Classic
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <detomaso-request at realbig.com>
> To: <detomaso at realbig.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 12:00 PM
> Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 20, Issue 14
>
>
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>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Parting out Pantera in France (Patrick Hals)
>> 2. Re: Parting out Pantera in France (CHARLESMCCALL at telefonica.net)
>> 3. Re: Re: Parting out Pantera in France (JJD1010 at aol.com)
>> 4. What is it? (JJD1010 at aol.com)
>> 5. What is it? (fresnofinches at aol.com)
>> 6. Re: What is it? (John Taphorn)
>> 7. Re: Parting out a Pantera - in France (MikeLDrew at aol.com)
>> 8. Re: Mass-Flo part 2 (Daniel C Jones)
>> 9. Re: MOTOR OIL - DAZED & CONFUSED (Art Stephens)
>> 10. Wandering Through the Archives (Was DAZED AND CONFUSED)
>> (Matt Merritt)
>> 11. Re: Wandering Through the Archives (Was DAZED AND CONFUSED)
>> (SOBill at aol.com)
>> 12. RE: Wandering Through the Archives (Was DAZED AND CONFUSED)
>> (Mark McWhinney)
>> 13. RE: Wandering Through the Archives (Was DAZED AND CONFUSED)
>> (Matt Merritt)
>> 14. Re: Re: Parting out Pantera in France (Tomas Gunnarsson)
>> 15. A1 GP race--Must-see TV *TODAY* (MikeLDrew at aol.com)
>> 16. Re: Mass-Flo part 2 (Mad Dog Antenucci)
>> 17. Re: MOTOR OIL - DAZED & CONFUSED (Mad Dog Antenucci)
>> 18. Busted engine mount bolts-NO MORE! (Tom Di Iulio)
>> 19. Re: Busted engine mount bolts-NO MORE! (Charles Engles)
>> 20. RE: Busted engine mount bolts-NO MORE! (michael frazier)
>> 21. Re: Turbocharging Book (Dave Williams)
>> 22. RE: Wandering Through the Archives (Was DAZED AND CONFUSED)
>> (Mad Dog Antenucci)
>> 23. Re: Busted engine mount bolts-NO MORE! (Mad Dog Antenucci)
>> 24. Tony Panterra (Mad Dog Antenucci)
>> 25. RE: Tony Panterra (John Bentley (jab))
>> 26. RE: Tony Panterra (Mad Dog Antenucci)
>> 27. RE: Busted engine mount bolts-NO MORE! (Tom Di Iulio)
>> 28. Re: Wandering Through the Archives (Was DAZED AND CONFUSED)
>> (JJD1010 at aol.com)
>> 29. Not Pantera Related Stupid crook or stupid cops? (Brian)
>> 30. Brand New 347 For Sale...... (GRR456 at aol.com)
>> 31. Warning Aussies! (Dave Doddek)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:07:50 +0100
>> From: "Patrick Hals" <patrickhals at skynet.be>
>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Parting out Pantera in France
>> To: <detomaso at realbig.com>, <CHARLESMCCALL at telefonica.net>,
>> <fresnofinches at aol.com>
>> Message-ID: <004501c64696$bffee6b0$6501a8c0 at patrickgle20pz>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Hi all
>> I looked at the pics from e Bay, and I can assure you this is not a G4.
>> There are a lot more holes in a G4 frame, believe me :>)) not only in the
>> frame sections under the doors, but also lots in the gearbox tunnel and
> the
>> rear panel between cockpit and engine
>> Patrick
>> Candy # 2862
>> See you at Le Mans Classic
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:36:38 +0100 (MET)
>> From: "CHARLESMCCALL at telefonica.net" <CHARLESMCCALL at telefonica.net>
>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Re: Parting out Pantera in France
>> To: <patrickhals at skynet.be>, <detomaso at realbig.com>,
>> <fresnofinches at aol.com>
>> Message-ID: <25842104.1142256998262.JavaMail.root at ctps1>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="UTF-8"
>>
>> Patrick -
>> Seeing as there were only 14 (?) genuine Group 4 cars manufactured, it
>> would have been most surprising to find one being actioned for 4000
>> euros, but life is funny sometimes!! You've basically confirmed what
>> common sense would indicate...
>>
>> ----Mensaje original----
>> De: patrickhals at skynet.be
>> Recibido: 13/03/2006 13:07
>> Para: <detomaso at realbig.com>, <CHARLESMCCALL at telefonica.net>,
>> <fresnofinches at aol.com>
>> Asunto: Parting out Pantera in France
>>
>> Hi all
>> I looked at the pics from e Bay, and I can assure you this is not a
>> G4.
>> There are a lot more holes in a G4 frame, believe me :>)) not only in
>> the
>> frame sections under the doors, but also lots in the gearbox tunnel
>> and the
>> rear panel between cockpit and engine
>> Patrick
>> Candy # 2862
>> See you at Le Mans Classic
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:05:44 EST
>> From: JJD1010 at aol.com
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Re: Parting out Pantera in France
>> To: detomaso at realbig.com
>> Message-ID: <92.362b00c6.3146d638 at aol.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>>
>> It appears that the chassis is actually in pretty good shape. I wonder
>> why
> it
>> is being parted out?
>>
>> Jeff
>> 6559
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:18:20 EST
>> From: JJD1010 at aol.com
>> Subject: [DeTomaso] What is it?
>> To: detomaso at realbig.com
>> Message-ID: <2e2.3eb489e.3146d92c at aol.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>>
>>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/DeTomaso-Pantera-Misc-parts_W0QQitemZ4621513412
>> QQcategoryZ10076QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
>>
>> >From ebay: At the top of the picture is a part I don't recognize. It's a
>> metal stamping with holes all across it. Anyone know?
>>
>> Jeff
>> 6559
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:47:30 -0500
>> From: fresnofinches at aol.com
>> Subject: [DeTomaso] What is it?
>> To: detomaso at realbig.com
>> Message-ID: <8C814C430B5CAFA-16B8-BADC at mblk-r36.sysops.aol.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>>
>> Jeff,
>>
>> I saw that and scratched my head, too. Is it a bulkhead piece from
>> under the car, the one that holds the cooling tubes?
>>
>> Larry
>>
>> Peace, be careful but DRIVE IT!
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:02:43 -0600
>> From: "John Taphorn" <jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com>
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] What is it?
>> To: <fresnofinches at aol.com>, <detomaso at realbig.com>
>> Message-ID: <002201c646af$2e955ec0$c600a8c0 at Millennia>
>>
>> My reaction was the same. Although, I don't recognize it (or the
> adjacent
>> can) as Pantera Parts.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <fresnofinches at aol.com>
>> To: <detomaso at realbig.com>
>> Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 8:47 AM
>> Subject: [DeTomaso] What is it?
>>
>>
>> > Jeff,
>> >
>> > I saw that and scratched my head, too. Is it a bulkhead piece from
> under
>> > the car, the one that holds the cooling tubes?
>> >
>> > Larry
>> >
>> > Peace, be careful but DRIVE IT!
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> >
>> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> >
>> > Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>> >
>> > DeTomaso mailing list
>> > DeTomaso at realbig.com
>> > http://ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 7
>> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:48:04 EST
>> From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Parting out a Pantera - in France
>> To: ParaPantera at aol.com, Fresnofinches at aol.com, detomaso at realbig.com
>> Message-ID: <233.8838f54.3146ee34 at aol.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 3/12/06 22:08:12, parapantera at aol.com writes:
>>
>> << uh.........is that one of the factory race car chassis he is parting
> out?
>> >>
>>
>> >>>No, it's a standard Pantera.
>>
>> I know what you're thinking--you see the stamped holes in the panel. But
> no,
>> it's just an ordinary road car.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 8
>> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:00:56 -0600
>> From: "Daniel C Jones" <daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Mass-Flo part 2
>> To: detomaso at realbig.com
>> Message-ID:
>> <1c01d3e60603131000l33d3c5d4mbaba203df74bd031 at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> > *When asked about the effects of reversion their response was that the
>> > "throttle body/ adapter/ meter combination work together to be
>> > virtually
>> > unaffected by reversion".
>>
>> Simply not true. Due to the mass air sensor location, their system is
> worse
>> than the stock Ford mass air set-up which is itself susceptible to
> reversion.
>> It's physics that applies everywhere except in the marketing universe.
> For
>> many engine combinations, this set-up will work fine. For others, it
>> will
>> not. If you have a lot of compression and overlap, I'd look elsewhere.
>>
>> > *The system uses a pair of "conventional O2 sensors not wideband".
>>
>> Their system uses a stock Ford EEC-IV computer which uses narrow band
> O2's.
>>
>> > They seem to agree that is designed to be plug and play "requiring no
> tune up
>> > to get up and running". I just wonder if it is possible to tune this
> system
>> > properly once installed??
>>
>> You can tune it with one of the aftermarket tuners (Eectuner, TwEECer,
> PMS)
>> if you buy the right processor. Ford makes many different processors and
> not
>> all supported by the aftermarket tuners. Understand that tuning will not
>> overcome the mass air sensor limitations. There is no magic here.
> Mass-Flo's
>> EFI systems use a factory EEC-IV mass air processors with no
>> modifications
>> other than a device to convert the GM frequency output to the analog
> voltage
>> the Ford EEC expects. The Mass-Flo systems are based on the A9L Mustang
> EEC
>> which is supported by all of the above mentioned tuners.
>>
>> You can duplicate the Mass-Flo system with a single plane intake (set up
> for
>> injection with injector bungs), a 90 degree elbow with throttle body, a
> Ford
>> EEC-IV processor, and a mass air meter matched to your injector size.
> That
>> set up would have the added benefit of allowing you to move the mass air
>> sensor, if necessary, and would not need the extra electronics that
> conditions
>> the GM frequency output to work with the Ford analog voltage input.
>> Also,
> the
>> large single disc style throttle bodies usually make a bit more power
>> than
>> the 4 hole carb style. A friend runs that set up on his drag race
>> Mustang
>> with a PMS piggyback controller. Alternatively, you could do the same
> thing
>> with an aftermarket speed density or Alpha-N ECU (without the mass air
> meter).
>> That approach will be more flexible but will require additional tuning.
>>
>> > {short back-story - my thoughts are this system may have the potential
> to
>> > match the performance of properly tuned race carburetor with the added
>> > benefits of fuel injection.....drivability, easier starting, fuel
> economy
>> > ;o), etc.... I still believe an IR injection system would be ideal but
> I
>> > am exploring my options with a single carb style manifold right now.}
>>
>> The manifolding is a separate issue. The 4 barrel carb intake approach
>> is
>> fine if you choose the right control approach. Previously, I gave a
> general
>> overview of the three basic engine control schemes and what their
> limitations
>> are. If you choose to use the mass air approach, pick your cam
> accordingly
>> and read the Probst book on the Ford EEC.
>>
>> > Also, the "pie in the sky" method that they describe their system is
> somewhat
>> > annoying.
>>
>> That's a big red flag to me. When a company makes claims like that they
> are
>> either incompetent (don't understand the limitations of their system) or
>> dishonest.
>>
>> > This is not a good analogy but here is goes anyway. If this system was
> the
>> > answer to all prayers, then engines in Formula 1 and all other forms of
>> > performance vehicles would be using it.
>>
>> Ford ran the speed density EEC in Formula 1 as the mass air approach was
>> less reliable (a mass air meter in each stack to fail) and made less
> power.
>>
>> Dan Jones
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 9
>> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:14:52 -0800
>> From: "Art Stephens" <artstephens at charter.net>
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] MOTOR OIL - DAZED & CONFUSED
>> To: "Mad Dog Antenucci" <teampantera at yahoo.com>,
>> <detomaso at realbig.com>
>> Message-ID: <004101c646ca$06e33710$4b29b618 at D3Z8N081>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>> reply-type=original
>>
>> Dawg Man,
>> Russ Fulp recommended that I run Castrol 20W/50 in my engine. I
>> said
> I
>> was thinking about using synthetic for the Silver State (if I live long
>> enough) to gain the extra heat protection. He didn't seem too crazy
>> about
>> that idea. If I recall correctly, he said he sets his engines up loose
> and
>> he thought the synthetic oil was not really ideal for his engines, or
>> something like that? You might want to check with him.
>> Art
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Mad Dog Antenucci" <teampantera at yahoo.com>
>> To: <detomaso at realbig.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 5:46 AM
>> Subject: [DeTomaso] MOTOR OIL - DAZED & CONFUSED
>>
>>
>> > Was at the parts store last night picking up HP1 filters and motor oil
> and
>> > was amazed at the selection of oil available now.
>> >
>> > After just staring in awe at the dozens of motor oil choices for about
> 10
>> > minutes I thought geez America really is a great place to live. ;-]
>> >
>> > Finally went with Mobil One 15-50 which I've used before....And while
>> > I
>> > don't have any particular loyalty to any of the oil manufacturer's and
>> > have used most of the race oils on the market.... if I recall correctly
>> > the multi-grade oil like the Mobil 15-50 essentially flows 'more' to a
>> > cold motor and provides more protection to it hot...or so goes the
>> > theme.....is that it essentially in simple dawg talk?
>> >
>> > MD, Waiting to hear the proper technical response from my oil industry
>> > engineer brothers in Texas! ;-]
>> > _______________________________________________
>> >
>> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> >
>> > Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>> >
>> > DeTomaso mailing list
>> > DeTomaso at realbig.com
>> > http://ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 10
>> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:33:31 -0800
>> From: "Matt Merritt" <mmerritt at EventVehicles.com>
>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Wandering Through the Archives (Was DAZED AND
>> CONFUSED)
>> To: "Detomaso \(E-mail\)" <detomaso at realbig.com>
>> Message-ID:
>> <029B2022F87E714EB1CC13F0205083251A7862 at eviserver.EventVehicles.local>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Hi All:
>>
>> Several years ago, in response to a question about motor oil, someone
> wrote a very insightful post about oil types that sold me forevermore on
> Chevron Delo 400 straight-30 oil.
>>
>> I saved the writer's very interesting information on my computer until it
> was (don't ask) stolen during the burglary of my office three weeks ago
>>
>> If someone could point me to the Forum's search engine I'll try to find
>> it
> and post it again.
>>
>> By the way, Russ Fulp told me that he specifically built my engine to run
> on dino-juice oil and to avoid synthetics.
>>
>> Matt Merritt
>> #2171
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 11
>> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:35:03 EST
>> From: SOBill at aol.com
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Wandering Through the Archives (Was DAZED AND
>> CONFUSED)
>> To: mmerritt at EventVehicles.com
>> Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
>> Message-ID: <27a.60e625a.31471557 at aol.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>>
>> Matt,
>>
>> Try >>http://www.panteraclubnorcal.com/search.htm
>>
>> PCNC has implemented a Google search restricted to the realbig Pantera
>> archives.
>>
>> Very fast and useful.
>>
>> SOBill Taylor
>> sobill at aol.com
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 12
>> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:44:19 -0800
>> From: "Mark McWhinney" <msm at portata.com>
>> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Wandering Through the Archives (Was DAZED AND
>> CONFUSED)
>> To: "'Matt Merritt'" <mmerritt at EventVehicles.com>, "'Detomaso
>> (E-mail)'" <detomaso at realbig.com>
>> Message-ID:
>> <20060313184426.3A39232C06E at smtpauth00.csee.siteprotect.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Is this it?
>>
>> http://ftl.realbig.com/pipermail/detomaso/2004-February/038363.html
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]
> On
>> Behalf Of Matt Merritt
>> Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 10:34 AM
>> To: Detomaso (E-mail)
>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Wandering Through the Archives (Was DAZED AND
> CONFUSED)
>>
>> Hi All:
>>
>> Several years ago, in response to a question about motor oil, someone
> wrote
>> a very insightful post about oil types that sold me forevermore on
>> Chevron
>> Delo 400 straight-30 oil.
>>
>> I saved the writer's very interesting information on my computer until it
>> was (don't ask) stolen during the burglary of my office three weeks ago
>>
>> If someone could point me to the Forum's search engine I'll try to find
>> it
>> and post it again.
>>
>> By the way, Russ Fulp told me that he specifically built my engine to run
> on
>> dino-juice oil and to avoid synthetics.
>>
>> Matt Merritt
>> #2171
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at realbig.com
>> http://ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 13
>> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:51:11 -0800
>> From: "Matt Merritt" <mmerritt at EventVehicles.com>
>> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Wandering Through the Archives (Was DAZED AND
>> CONFUSED)
>> To: "Detomaso \(E-mail\)" <detomaso at realbig.com>
>> Message-ID:
>> <029B2022F87E714EB1CC13F0205083251A7863 at eviserver.EventVehicles.local>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Ah hah! Found it in about 10 seconds, thanks to SOBill:
>>
>> I had an auto repair shop in Houston, Texas, which happens to be the
>> petrochemical capital of the world. I have had many conversations with
>> Chemical engineers at oil companies as well as Forensic Chemists at
> analysis
>> laboratories. I also performed EPA and DOT conversions on European Gray
>> market cars in the 80's. These cars had to pass rigid emission testing
>> at
>> federally approved testing labs. I have also spoken with automotive
>> engineers for Ford and Chevrolet. So forgive me for being soooooooo
>> opinionated about this subject matter.
>>
>> There are two schools of thought regarding multi-grade motor oils.
>>
>> First school says, multi grades make engines last longer because they
>> circulate quicker at start-up when most of the engine wear takes place.
>>
>> Second school says, straight grades make engines last longer because they
>> have better shear characteristics and do a better job of lubricating the
>> rings, which makes them last longer.
>>
>> Both of these schools have error in thought and implementation and don't
>> address all of the aspects of the oil.
>>
>> I maintain a third school of thought, which says a clean engine is a
>> happy
>> engine.
>>
>> I use Delo 400 30W by Chevron. It has all of the ratings including
> diesel,
>> gas, and turbo. This motor oil is not advertised at racetracks and other
>> than truckers; nobody knows what the hell it is. According to the
> engineers
>> at Chevron, Delo has the highest level of detergents and dispersants of
> any
>> motor oil. This means it will keep a motor clean and/or clean a dirty
> motor.
>> 18-wheelers that have diesel engines with turbochargers and superchargers
>> use this oil.
>>
>> So here is the poop. Multi grade motor oils are made from low grade
> crude.
>> The are man-made molecules created in a cat-cracker, short for catalytic
>> cracker - a chemical reactor for converting oils with high boiling points
>> into fuels with lower boiling points in the presence of a catalyst.
>> These
>> manmade molecules break down faster and create more deposits than the
>> molecules found in straight grade motor oil. Straight grade motor oil is
>> made from premium crude, which is expensive and sometimes in short
>> supply.
>> For the reason just stated, oil companies love multi-grades because they
> can
>> be made from junk and they are a value added product.
>>
>> Automakers began to use multi-grade motor oils because of ever-tightening
>> emission standards. The automotive engineers determined that the thin
>> multi-grade motor oils sealed the rings better during cold starts and
>> therefore caused fewer emissions. For those of you that are familiar,
>> the
>> entire focus these days on emissions, are concerned with the first five
>> minutes of cold start, because that is about the only area of radical
>> improvement that can be made. That is why preheated oxygen sensors were
>> developed and why they are trying to develop preheated catalysts for the
>> exhaust. Well, the EPA, in their infinite wisdom, told the manufactures
>> if
>> they wanted to use multi-grade motor oils to pass the emission testing,
> that
>> they would have to recommend the usage of multi-grades all the time.
>> Hence
>> the beginning of the oil recommendations we see today. As you may have
>> noticed, over time the recommendations have gone from 20-50 to 10-40 to
>> 5-30. The trend is due to the ever-tightening EPA requirements. When the
>> automakers need to make cleaner tail pipe emissions, for the next belt
>> tightening, they just recommend thinner oil. About this time you should
> be
>> feeling like a fool!!
>>
>> I experimented with this while attempting to pass European Gray market
> cars
>> through the EPA labs, and found this to be true. Pipe up out there if
>> you
>> are an automotive engineer of a petrochemical engineer of automotive
>> products.
>>
>> I bought a 1988 Sea Ray in 1988. The boat had a 260 HP Chevrolet 350 cid
>> motor. I did not trust the boat dealership and wanted to service my boat
>> myself. I owned a repair shop and was completely capable and competent.
> I
>> also wanted to maintain my warranty with the boat dealer, just in case.
>> After performing my first oil change, I stopped at the dealer and
>> informed
>> them of my oil change and provided them with the receipt from their parts
>> department for the filter. They said that there is no oil on this
> receipt.
>> What kind of oil did you use? I told them Delo 400 30W by Chevron. They
>> said good, you didn't use a multi-grade motor oil. If you had used a
> multi
>> grade, we would have to cancel your engine warranty. You see, there are
> no
>> emission requirements on boats!
>>
>> You mentioned the word "cling" in your description of synthetics. The
> most
>> "clingy" oils are the ones with a high paraffin content (wax), which
>> historically are the Pennsylvania crudes. As evidence, have you ever
>> noticed on the old Pennzoil commercials, how they always use a farmer to
>> talk about how well the oil works in his tractor? Well, there is a damn
>> good reason for that! Tractors are not operated everyday. They
>> sometimes
>> sit for long periods of time without usage. Then when they are started,
>> there can have an exaggerated amount of crank bearing wear due to the oil
>> running off during storage. Pennzoil would leave a waxy residue that
> would
>> help lubricate the bearings until the oil flow began. Their best
>> spokesman
>> would have to be a person who is cheap, and leaves their engines idle for
>> long periods, like a farmer!
>>
>> Although this above characterization also sounds like a classic car buff
> or
>> a Pantera owner, I would not recommend high paraffin crudes. They suffer
>> from the same problem as multi-grades, they break down faster and leave
> more
>> deposits (waxy looking deposits).
>>
>> Synthetics were developed for jet aircraft turbine engines. In the early
>> days of turbine engines, the motor oil would break down and leave
>> deposits
>> and cause engine damage, which would crash the plane. Synthetics allowed
>> higher operating temperatures with almost no breakdown (visualize the
>> synthetic oil commercial where they fry conventional oil in a pan and
>> then
>> scrape the deposits with a spatula). However, in jet engines, the oil
> does
>> not seal the combustion chamber like in a car engine. In the early
>> marketing days of synthetic motor oil marketing, the salesman said you
> could
>> leave the oil in the car for 50,000 miles, just change the filter once or
>> twice in this period and it will be fine. They used to sell special
>> filter
>> brackets that held two filters and it was bolted to a fender or
>> something.
>> Well, the engineers and salesman were only considering the breakdown
> aspect
>> of the oil, not the accumulation of combustion acids. Synthetics are the
>> best, but must be changed as frequently at regular motor oil to prevent
>> combustion acid damage.
>>
>> There are some cars that are so hot that they have to run synthetics or
>> engine deposits will form and cause engine damage even at 3000 mile oil
>> change intervals. The new aluminum engine corvettes are a good example
>> of
>> this trend. High output motors that generate a lot of heat or that are
>> operated in high RPM conditions like boats, Panteras, turbine engines,
> etc.
>>
>> Slow warm up periods also add a lot of combustion acids to the oil and
>> can
>> be more harmful than driving cold. Driving forces the engine to warm up
>> faster and changes the combustion chamber temperature and chemistry. So
> my
>> recommendation on oil, Delo 400 30W by Chevron or Synthetic oil changed
>> frequently. Warm up a little, but not a lot. Start the car and use it
>> rather than allowing long periods of inactivity.
>>
>> With a bottomless budget, use straight 30W or a heavy synthetic like
> 20-50W,
>> use an oil preheater and an electric oil pump to circulate low pressure
> oil
>> in the engine before cranking (like a turbine engine). Change the oil
>> before it discolors or every 3000 miles (or 3 months if it sits a lot).
> Use
>> multi grades in cold climates where 20 degree F or below start-ups are
>> expected. Cold climate is about the only really good use for
> multi-grades.
>> Synthetic multi-grades do not suffer from the same problems as natural
> crude
>> multi-grades. They are made multi-grade because of the manufacturer
>> requirements, which are EPA requirements. OMG, Spark plugs I will let
>> someone else explain.
>>
>> Richard Schulze, P. E.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Plotkin, Richard (NBC Universal, SPS LLC)
> [mailto:Richard.Plotkin at nbcuni.com]
>> Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 10:39 AM
>> To: Matt Merritt
>> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Wandering Through the Archives (Was DAZED AND
> CONFUSED)
>>
>>
>>
>> now located at the bottom of every post.....
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
>> [ mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]On Behalf Of Matt Merritt
>> Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 10:34 AM
>> To: Detomaso (E-mail)
>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Wandering Through the Archives (Was DAZED AND
>> CONFUSED)
>>
>>
>> Hi All:
>>
>> Several years ago, in response to a question about motor oil, someone
> wrote a very insightful post about oil types that sold me forevermore on
> Chevron Delo 400 straight-30 oil.
>>
>> I saved the writer's very interesting information on my computer until it
> was (don't ask) stolen during the burglary of my office three weeks ago
>>
>> If someone could point me to the Forum's search engine I'll try to find
>> it
> and post it again.
>>
>> By the way, Russ Fulp told me that he specifically built my engine to run
> on dino-juice oil and to avoid synthetics.
>>
>> Matt Merritt
>> #2171
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>>
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>> DeTomaso at realbig.com
>> http://ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 14
>> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 20:13:28 +0100
>> From: "Tomas Gunnarsson" <guson at home.se>
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Re: Parting out Pantera in France
>> To: <detomaso at realbig.com>
>> Message-ID: <005a01c646d2$83844cc0$e9a3c452 at bb.systeamnat.se>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Pretty good shape? If you look at the bottom right pic of the engine bay
> you'll see that the whole left wheel well side of the box section is gone
> and you see the wheel well reinforcement from the inside. The front wheel
> arches look like they have ben cut up and flares have been riveted on. I'm
> thinking 10-20kUSD worth of bodywork before it's ready to go out to paint.
>>
>> Tomas
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <JJD1010 at aol.com>
>> To: <detomaso at realbig.com>
>> Sent: den 13 mars 2006 15:05
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Re: Parting out Pantera in France
>>
>>
>> > It appears that the chassis is actually in pretty good shape. I wonder
> why it
>> > is being parted out?
>> >
>> > Jeff
>> > 6559
>> > _______________________________________________
>> >
>> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> >
>> > Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>> >
>> > DeTomaso mailing list
>> > DeTomaso at realbig.com
>> > http://ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>> >
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 15
>> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:42:15 EST
>> From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
>> Subject: [DeTomaso] A1 GP race--Must-see TV *TODAY*
>> To: DeTomaso at realbig.com
>> Message-ID: <282.7167df3.31472517 at aol.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>>
>> Hi guys,
>>
>> Apparently, the A1 GP race held at Laguna Seca was absolutely spectacular
>> yesterday.
>>
>> For those who aren't familiar, A1 GP is an international racing series
> rather
>> like the PGA Senior's tour, where former greats from different countries
> are
>> matched against one another in identical F-1 cars. Races are held at
> various
>> tracks around the world.
>>
>> At yesterday's race at Laguna Seca, apparently it was just pouring with
> rain,
>> making for some really spectacular racing.
>>
>> The race is being rebroadcast TODAY at noon Pacific, 3:00 p.m. Eastern,
>> on
>> the Outdoor Living Network channel. Definitely one to TIVO and share
>> with
> your
>> buddies!
>>
>> Mike (VHS for me, thanks!
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 16
>> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:26:09 -0800 (PST)
>> From: Mad Dog Antenucci <teampantera at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Mass-Flo part 2
>> To: Daniel C Jones <daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com>, detomaso at realbig.com
>> Message-ID: <20060313202609.38335.qmail at web50106.mail.yahoo.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>>
>> If I had a buck everytime someone suggested I call a supplier for
> information or the IR EFI system Mike Trusty is building for me I'd have
> at
> least enough money for a couple cups of that gay coffee at Starbucks.
>>
>> To me I am depending on the advise of Mike and the people I know and
> trust. Your exactly right on Dan........as usual! ;-]
>>
>> MD
>>
>> Daniel C Jones <daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > *When asked about the effects of reversion their response was that
>> the
>> > "throttle body/ adapter/ meter combination work together to be
>> > virtually
>> > unaffected by reversion".
>>
>> Simply not true. Due to the mass air sensor location, their system is
> worse
>> than the stock Ford mass air set-up which is itself susceptible to
> reversion.
>> It's physics that applies everywhere except in the marketing universe.
>> For
>> many engine combinations, this set-up will work fine. For others, it will
>> not. If you have a lot of compression and overlap, I'd look elsewhere.
>>
>> > *The system uses a pair of "conventional O2 sensors not wideband".
>>
>> Their system uses a stock Ford EEC-IV computer which uses narrow band
> O2's.
>>
>> > They seem to agree that is designed to be plug and play "requiring no
> tune up
>> > to get up and running". I just wonder if it is possible to tune this
> system
>> > properly once installed??
>>
>> You can tune it with one of the aftermarket tuners (Eectuner, TwEECer,
> PMS)
>> if you buy the right processor. Ford makes many different processors and
> not
>> all supported by the aftermarket tuners. Understand that tuning will not
>> overcome the mass air sensor limitations. There is no magic here.
> Mass-Flo's
>> EFI systems use a factory EEC-IV mass air processors with no
>> modifications
>> other than a device to convert the GM frequency output to the analog
> voltage
>> the Ford EEC expects. The Mass-Flo systems are based on the A9L Mustang
> EEC
>> which is supported by all of the above mentioned tuners.
>>
>> You can duplicate the Mass-Flo system with a single plane intake (set up
> for
>> injection with injector bungs), a 90 degree elbow with throttle body, a
> Ford
>> EEC-IV processor, and a mass air meter matched to your injector size.
>> That
>> set up would have the added benefit of allowing you to move the mass air
>> sensor, if necessary, and would not need the extra electronics that
> conditions
>> the GM frequency output to work with the Ford analog voltage input. Also,
> the
>> large single disc style throttle bodies usually make a bit more power
>> than
>> the 4 hole carb style. A friend runs that set up on his drag race Mustang
>> with a PMS piggyback controller. Alternatively, you could do the same
> thing
>> with an aftermarket speed density or Alpha-N ECU (without the mass air
> meter).
>> That approach will be more flexible but will require additional tuning.
>>
>> > {short back-story - my thoughts are this system may have the potential
> to
>> > match the performance of properly tuned race carburetor with the added
>> > benefits of fuel injection.....drivability, easier starting, fuel
> economy
>> > ;o), etc.... I still believe an IR injection system would be ideal but
>> > I
>
>> > am exploring my options with a single carb style manifold right now.}
>>
>> The manifolding is a separate issue. The 4 barrel carb intake approach is
>> fine if you choose the right control approach. Previously, I gave a
> general
>> overview of the three basic engine control schemes and what their
> limitations
>> are. If you choose to use the mass air approach, pick your cam
>> accordingly
>> and read the Probst book on the Ford EEC.
>>
>> > Also, the "pie in the sky" method that they describe their system is
> somewhat
>> > annoying.
>>
>> That's a big red flag to me. When a company makes claims like that they
> are
>> either incompetent (don't understand the limitations of their system) or
>> dishonest.
>>
>> > This is not a good analogy but here is goes anyway. If this system was
> the
>> > answer to all prayers, then engines in Formula 1 and all other forms of
>> > performance vehicles would be using it.
>>
>> Ford ran the speed density EEC in Formula 1 as the mass air approach was
>> less reliable (a mass air meter in each stack to fail) and made less
> power.
>>
>> Dan Jones
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at realbig.com
>> http://ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 17
>> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:33:07 -0800 (PST)
>> From: Mad Dog Antenucci <teampantera at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] MOTOR OIL - DAZED & CONFUSED
>> To: Art Stephens <artstephens at charter.net>, detomaso at realbig.com
>> Message-ID: <20060313203307.77875.qmail at web50104.mail.yahoo.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>>
>> On this point I don't agree with Russ.
>> I don't need to check with him. ;-]
>>
>> I don't know what ideal is.....I love Russ and I love what he did with
> the engine...and I did use Castrol 20/50 for breakin and the first couple
> ORR endurance races......since that time I have went BACK to synthetic. Do
> YOU or others need it for the street, a 20 minute track session or low end
> engine speeds in ORR? I think the answer is definately no.
>>
>> BUT, if YOU, me and others are running at or near WOT in an endurance
> event I think the synthetic is a plus for all the reasons we have
> previously
> discussed.
>>
>> MD
>>
>> Art Stephens <artstephens at charter.net> wrote:
>> Dawg Man,
>> Russ Fulp recommended that I run Castrol 20W/50 in my engine. I said I
>> was thinking about using synthetic for the Silver State (if I live long
>> enough) to gain the extra heat protection. He didn't seem too crazy about
>> that idea. If I recall correctly, he said he sets his engines up loose
>> and
>> he thought the synthetic oil was not really ideal for his engines, or
>> something like that? You might want to check with him.
>> Art
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Mad Dog Antenucci"
>> To:
>> Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 5:46 AM
>> Subject: [DeTomaso] MOTOR OIL - DAZED & CONFUSED
>>
>>
>> > Was at the parts store last night picking up HP1 filters and motor oil
> and
>> > was amazed at the selection of oil available now.
>> >
>> > After just staring in awe at the dozens of motor oil choices for about
> 10
>> > minutes I thought geez America really is a great place to live. ;-]
>> >
>> > Finally went with Mobil One 15-50 which I've used before....And while I
>> > don't have any particular loyalty to any of the oil manufacturer's and
>> > have used most of the race oils on the market.... if I recall correctly
>> > the multi-grade oil like the Mobil 15-50 essentially flows 'more' to a
>> > cold motor and provides more protection to it hot...or so goes the
>> > theme.....is that it essentially in simple dawg talk?
>> >
>> > MD, Waiting to hear the proper technical response from my oil industry
>> > engineer brothers in Texas! ;-]
>> > _______________________________________________
>> >
>> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> >
>> > Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>> >
>> > DeTomaso mailing list
>> > DeTomaso at realbig.com
>> > http://ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at realbig.com
>> http://ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 18
>> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:20:40 -0700
>> From: "Tom Di Iulio" <diiulio at ix.netcom.com>
>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Busted engine mount bolts-NO MORE!
>> To: <detomaso at realbig.com>
>> Message-ID: <000001c646e3$fe3fc370$6501a8c0 at yourfsyly0jtwn>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>>
>>
>> Hi folks,
>> Last week I whined like a little girl about some busted engine mount
>> bolts and the EZ-out tips I broke off in each sheared stud. Well, I'm
>> proud to say I've "re-grown a pair" and have successfully drilled out
>> each busted stud with a tungsten carbide bit equipped dremel.
>> I have met many challenges in my "car life" and have been beaten in
>> quite a few but today, goodness has triumphed over evil.
>> "Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, hear the lamentations
>> of their women".
>> Today I am Conan.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 19
>> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:40:15 -0600
>> From: "Charles Engles" <cengles at cox.net>
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Busted engine mount bolts-NO MORE!
>> To: "Tom Di Iulio" <diiulio at ix.netcom.com>
>> Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
>> Message-ID: <000b01c646e6$b9078ce0$6501a8c0 at server>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Dear Conan,
>>
>> Did you accomplish this victory with the engine in situ or
> removed
>> from the Pantera?
>>
>> Very impressive, Chuck Engles
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Tom Di Iulio" <diiulio at ix.netcom.com>
>> To: <detomaso at realbig.com>
>> Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 3:20 PM
>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Busted engine mount bolts-NO MORE!
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Hi folks,
>> > Last week I whined like a little girl about some busted engine mount
>> > bolts and the EZ-out tips I broke off in each sheared stud. Well, I'm
>> > proud to say I've "re-grown a pair" and have successfully drilled out
>> > each busted stud with a tungsten carbide bit equipped dremel.
>> > I have met many challenges in my "car life" and have been beaten in
>> > quite a few but today, goodness has triumphed over evil.
>> > "Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, hear the lamentations
>> > of their women".
>> > Today I am Conan.
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> >
>> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> >
>> > Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>> >
>> > DeTomaso mailing list
>> > DeTomaso at realbig.com
>> > http://ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 20
>> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:53:55 -0600
>> From: "michael frazier" <red3644 at hotmail.com>
>> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Busted engine mount bolts-NO MORE!
>> To: diiulio at ix.netcom.com, detomaso at realbig.com
>> Message-ID: <BAY109-F29C8BFF4612EC3E0D83ADEB9E00 at phx.gbl>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>>
>> Very good! Now don't break anything else...it's too close to Big Bend to
> be
>> messin' around.
>> See you there.
>> Michael
>> Gruppo Rompiculi Corsa Big Bend Open Road Race---April 22.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 21
>> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:11:49 -0600
>> From: Dave Williams <ronin at aristotle.net>
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Turbocharging Book
>> To: unlisted-recipients:; (no To-header on input)
>> Cc: "detomaso at realbig.com" <detomaso at realbig.com>
>> Message-ID: <4415EE25.7050707 at aristotle.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> F. & D. Terry wrote:
>>
>> > A good book to have is the one written by Hugh MacInnes titled
>> > Turbochargers. It is a H.P. Books publication and probably hard to find
>> > today.
>>
>> There are two, possibly three, editions of that book, with
>> substantially different text between them. The first edition was
>> heavier on theory, and the later ones heavier with "how to".
>>
>>
>> >> I'm planning to add to my library, and this book looks good, but isn't
>> >> real cheap
>> >> Forced Induction Performance Tuning A Practical Guide to
>> >> Supercharging and Turbocharging by A. Graham Bell Is any
>> >> familiar with this book?
>>
>> I haven't seen that one, but his two-stroke and four-stroke "tuning"
>> books were good.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 22
>> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:24:33 -0800 (PST)
>> From: Mad Dog Antenucci <teampantera at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Wandering Through the Archives (Was DAZED AND
>> CONFUSED)
>> To: Matt Merritt <mmerritt at EventVehicles.com>, "Detomaso \(E-mail\)"
>> <detomaso at realbig.com>
>> Message-ID: <20060313222433.10922.qmail at web50102.mail.yahoo.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>>
>> Excellent...definately worth reading. We can all agree on one thing and
> that is irregardless of preferred motor oil 'clean-is-better'. ;-]
>>
>> MD
>>
>> Matt Merritt <mmerritt at EventVehicles.com> wrote:
>> Ah hah! Found it in about 10 seconds, thanks to SOBill:
>>
>> I had an auto repair shop in Houston, Texas, which happens to be the
>> petrochemical capital of the world. I have had many conversations with
>> Chemical engineers at oil companies as well as Forensic Chemists at
> analysis
>> laboratories. I also performed EPA and DOT conversions on European Gray
>> market cars in the 80's. These cars had to pass rigid emission testing at
>> federally approved testing labs. I have also spoken with automotive
>> engineers for Ford and Chevrolet. So forgive me for being soooooooo
>> opinionated about this subject matter.
>>
>> There are two schools of thought regarding multi-grade motor oils.
>>
>> First school says, multi grades make engines last longer because they
>> circulate quicker at start-up when most of the engine wear takes place.
>>
>> Second school says, straight grades make engines last longer because they
>> have better shear characteristics and do a better job of lubricating the
>> rings, which makes them last longer.
>>
>> Both of these schools have error in thought and implementation and don't
>> address all of the aspects of the oil.
>>
>> I maintain a third school of thought, which says a clean engine is a
>> happy
>> engine.
>>
>> I use Delo 400 30W by Chevron. It has all of the ratings including
>> diesel,
>> gas, and turbo. This motor oil is not advertised at racetracks and other
>> than truckers; nobody knows what the hell it is. According to the
> engineers
>> at Chevron, Delo has the highest level of detergents and dispersants of
> any
>> motor oil. This means it will keep a motor clean and/or clean a dirty
> motor.
>> 18-wheelers that have diesel engines with turbochargers and superchargers
>> use this oil.
>>
>> So here is the poop. Multi grade motor oils are made from low grade
>> crude.
>> The are man-made molecules created in a cat-cracker, short for catalytic
>> cracker - a chemical reactor for converting oils with high boiling points
>> into fuels with lower boiling points in the presence of a catalyst. These
>> manmade molecules break down faster and create more deposits than the
>> molecules found in straight grade motor oil. Straight grade motor oil is
>> made from premium crude, which is expensive and sometimes in short
>> supply.
>> For the reason just stated, oil companies love multi-grades because they
> can
>> be made from junk and they are a value added product.
>>
>> Automakers began to use multi-grade motor oils because of ever-tightening
>> emission standards. The automotive engineers determined that the thin
>> multi-grade motor oils sealed the rings better during cold starts and
>> therefore caused fewer emissions. For those of you that are familiar, the
>> entire focus these days on emissions, are concerned with the first five
>> minutes of cold start, because that is about the only area of radical
>> improvement that can be made. That is why preheated oxygen sensors were
>> developed and why they are trying to develop preheated catalysts for the
>> exhaust. Well, the EPA, in their infinite wisdom, told the manufactures
>> if
>> they wanted to use multi-grade motor oils to pass the emission testing,
> that
>> they would have to recommend the usage of multi-grades all the time.
>> Hence
>> the beginning of the oil recommendations we see today. As you may have
>> noticed, over time the recommendations have gone from 20-50 to 10-40 to
>> 5-30. The trend is due to the ever-tightening EPA requirements. When the
>> automakers need to make cleaner tail pipe emissions, for the next belt
>> tightening, they just recommend thinner oil. About this time you should
>> be
>> feeling like a fool!!
>>
>> I experimented with this while attempting to pass European Gray market
> cars
>> through the EPA labs, and found this to be true. Pipe up out there if you
>> are an automotive engineer of a petrochemical engineer of automotive
>> products.
>>
>> I bought a 1988 Sea Ray in 1988. The boat had a 260 HP Chevrolet 350 cid
>> motor. I did not trust the boat dealership and wanted to service my boat
>> myself. I owned a repair shop and was completely capable and competent. I
>> also wanted to maintain my warranty with the boat dealer, just in case.
>> After performing my first oil change, I stopped at the dealer and
>> informed
>> them of my oil change and provided them with the receipt from their parts
>> department for the filter. They said that there is no oil on this
>> receipt.
>> What kind of oil did you use? I told them Delo 400 30W by Chevron. They
>> said good, you didn't use a multi-grade motor oil. If you had used a
>> multi
>> grade, we would have to cancel your engine warranty. You see, there are
>> no
>> emission requirements on boats!
>>
>> You mentioned the word "cling" in your description of synthetics. The
>> most
>> "clingy" oils are the ones with a high paraffin content (wax), which
>> historically are the Pennsylvania crudes. As evidence, have you ever
>> noticed on the old Pennzoil commercials, how they always use a farmer to
>> talk about how well the oil works in his tractor? Well, there is a damn
>> good reason for that! Tractors are not operated everyday. They sometimes
>> sit for long periods of time without usage. Then when they are started,
>> there can have an exaggerated amount of crank bearing wear due to the oil
>> running off during storage. Pennzoil would leave a waxy residue that
>> would
>> help lubricate the bearings until the oil flow began. Their best
>> spokesman
>> would have to be a person who is cheap, and leaves their engines idle for
>> long periods, like a farmer!
>>
>> Although this above characterization also sounds like a classic car buff
> or
>> a Pantera owner, I would not recommend high paraffin crudes. They suffer
>> from the same problem as multi-grades, they break down faster and leave
> more
>> deposits (waxy looking deposits).
>>
>> Synthetics were developed for jet aircraft turbine engines. In the early
>> days of turbine engines, the motor oil would break down and leave
>> deposits
>> and cause engine damage, which would crash the plane. Synthetics allowed
>> higher operating temperatures with almost no breakdown (visualize the
>> synthetic oil commercial where they fry conventional oil in a pan and
>> then
>> scrape the deposits with a spatula). However, in jet engines, the oil
>> does
>> not seal the combustion chamber like in a car engine. In the early
>> marketing days of synthetic motor oil marketing, the salesman said you
> could
>> leave the oil in the car for 50,000 miles, just change the filter once or
>> twice in this period and it will be fine. They used to sell special
>> filter
>> brackets that held two filters and it was bolted to a fender or
>> something.
>> Well, the engineers and salesman were only considering the breakdown
> aspect
>> of the oil, not the accumulation of combustion acids. Synthetics are the
>> best, but must be changed as frequently at regular motor oil to prevent
>> combustion acid damage.
>>
>> There are some cars that are so hot that they have to run synthetics or
>> engine deposits will form and cause engine damage even at 3000 mile oil
>> change intervals. The new aluminum engine corvettes are a good example of
>> this trend. High output motors that generate a lot of heat or that are
>> operated in high RPM conditions like boats, Panteras, turbine engines,
> etc.
>>
>> Slow warm up periods also add a lot of combustion acids to the oil and
>> can
>> be more harmful than driving cold. Driving forces the engine to warm up
>> faster and changes the combustion chamber temperature and chemistry. So
>> my
>> recommendation on oil, Delo 400 30W by Chevron or Synthetic oil changed
>> frequently. Warm up a little, but not a lot. Start the car and use it
>> rather than allowing long periods of inactivity.
>>
>> With a bottomless budget, use straight 30W or a heavy synthetic like
> 20-50W,
>> use an oil preheater and an electric oil pump to circulate low pressure
> oil
>> in the engine before cranking (like a turbine engine). Change the oil
>> before it discolors or every 3000 miles (or 3 months if it sits a lot).
> Use
>> multi grades in cold climates where 20 degree F or below start-ups are
>> expected. Cold climate is about the only really good use for
>> multi-grades.
>> Synthetic multi-grades do not suffer from the same problems as natural
> crude
>> multi-grades. They are made multi-grade because of the manufacturer
>> requirements, which are EPA requirements. OMG, Spark plugs I will let
>> someone else explain.
>>
>> Richard Schulze, P. E.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Plotkin, Richard (NBC Universal, SPS LLC)
> [mailto:Richard.Plotkin at nbcuni.com]
>> Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 10:39 AM
>> To: Matt Merritt
>> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Wandering Through the Archives (Was DAZED AND
> CONFUSED)
>>
>>
>>
>> now located at the bottom of every post.....
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
>> [ mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]On Behalf Of Matt Merritt
>> Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 10:34 AM
>> To: Detomaso (E-mail)
>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Wandering Through the Archives (Was DAZED AND
>> CONFUSED)
>>
>>
>> Hi All:
>>
>> Several years ago, in response to a question about motor oil, someone
> wrote a very insightful post about oil types that sold me forevermore on
> Chevron Delo 400 straight-30 oil.
>>
>> I saved the writer's very interesting information on my computer until it
> was (don't ask) stolen during the burglary of my office three weeks ago
>>
>> If someone could point me to the Forum's search engine I'll try to find
>> it
> and post it again.
>>
>> By the way, Russ Fulp told me that he specifically built my engine to run
> on dino-juice oil and to avoid synthetics.
>>
>> Matt Merritt
>> #2171
>> _______________________________________________
>>
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>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 23
>> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:28:58 -0800 (PST)
>> From: Mad Dog Antenucci <teampantera at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Busted engine mount bolts-NO MORE!
>> To: Tom Di Iulio <diiulio at ix.netcom.com>, detomaso at realbig.com
>> Message-ID: <20060313222858.77709.qmail at web50109.mail.yahoo.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>>
>> RIGHT ON TOMMY BOY!!!
>> YOU are da MAN.
>>
>> Tom Di Iulio <diiulio at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi folks,
>> Last week I whined like a little girl about some busted engine mount
>> bolts and the EZ-out tips I broke off in each sheared stud. Well, I'm
>> proud to say I've "re-grown a pair" and have successfully drilled out
>> each busted stud with a tungsten carbide bit equipped dremel.
>> I have met many challenges in my "car life" and have been beaten in
>> quite a few but today, goodness has triumphed over evil.
>> "Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, hear the lamentations
>> of their women".
>> Today I am Conan.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
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>>
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>> http://ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 24
>> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:40:20 -0800 (PST)
>> From: Mad Dog Antenucci <teampantera at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Tony Panterra
>> To: detomaso at realbig.com
>> Message-ID: <20060313224020.61376.qmail at web50108.mail.yahoo.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>>
>> I'm at the Deist Safety shop this morning getting my fire suppression
> bottle re-charged and I met a guy ordering a race suit name "Tony
> Panterra"
> (quess they misspelled his last name hehe). I was like WTF is your name
> again!!! ;-]
>>
>> In anycase he was buying a race suit to go to the NORC/Silver State in
> May....he is running a bad ass restored Trans Am....getouttahere!
>>
>> Its not a Pantera (yet) but it is an awsome looking ride....
>> MD
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 25
>> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:59:05 -0800
>> From: "John Bentley \(jab\)" <jab at cisco.com>
>> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Tony Panterra
>> To: "Mad Dog Antenucci" <teampantera at yahoo.com>,
>> <detomaso at realbig.com>
>> Message-ID:
>> <BB87E6B2C147324A859C6ABDB1C1930E01D69C90 at xmb-sjc-22d.amer.cisco.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Does Deist give you a volume discount? :)
>>
>> JB
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]
>> On Behalf Of Mad Dog Antenucci
>> Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 2:40 PM
>> To: detomaso at realbig.com
>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Tony Panterra
>>
>> I'm at the Deist Safety shop this morning getting my fire suppression
>> bottle re-charged and I met a guy ordering a race suit name "Tony
>> Panterra" (quess they misspelled his last name hehe). I was like WTF is
>> your name again!!! ;-]
>>
>> In anycase he was buying a race suit to go to the NORC/Silver State in
>> May....he is running a bad ass restored Trans Am....getouttahere!
>>
>> Its not a Pantera (yet) but it is an awsome looking ride....
>> MD
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>>
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>> http://ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 26
>> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:01:15 -0800 (PST)
>> From: Mad Dog Antenucci <teampantera at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Tony Panterra
>> To: "John Bentley \(jab\)" <jab at cisco.com>, detomaso at realbig.com
>> Message-ID: <20060313230115.38360.qmail at web50104.mail.yahoo.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>>
>> 20% ;-]
>>
>> "John Bentley (jab)" <jab at cisco.com> wrote: Does Deist give you a volume
> discount? :)
>>
>> JB
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]
>> On Behalf Of Mad Dog Antenucci
>> Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 2:40 PM
>> To: detomaso at realbig.com
>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Tony Panterra
>>
>> I'm at the Deist Safety shop this morning getting my fire suppression
>> bottle re-charged and I met a guy ordering a race suit name "Tony
>> Panterra" (quess they misspelled his last name hehe). I was like WTF is
>> your name again!!! ;-]
>>
>> In anycase he was buying a race suit to go to the NORC/Silver State in
>> May....he is running a bad ass restored Trans Am....getouttahere!
>>
>> Its not a Pantera (yet) but it is an awsome looking ride....
>> MD
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>>
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>> DeTomaso at realbig.com
>> http://ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 27
>> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:56:55 -0700
>> From: "Tom Di Iulio" <diiulio at ix.netcom.com>
>> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Busted engine mount bolts-NO MORE!
>> To: "'Charles Engles'" <cengles at cox.net>
>> Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
>> Message-ID: <000301c646e9$0eb70ec0$6501a8c0 at yourfsyly0jtwn>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>>
>> The engine was in the car. I DO have some bolt dust in my hair and eyes
>> but it only serves to make me more attractive to the opposite sex (no
>> brokeback Pantera owner here).
>>
>> Dear Conan,
>>
>> Did you accomplish this victory with the engine in situ or
>> removed
>> from the Pantera?
>>
>> Very impressive, Chuck Engles
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 28
>> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 19:11:32 EST
>> From: JJD1010 at aol.com
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Wandering Through the Archives (Was DAZED AND
>> CONFUSED)
>> To: detomaso at realbig.com
>> Cc: rschulze at uis-usa.com
>> Message-ID: <217.14aafce4.31476434 at aol.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>>
>> FYI, Richard is an automobile forensic engineer and a member of PCNT.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 29
>> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 19:46:52 -0500
>> From: "Brian" <gypsy at myspeedworks.com>
>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Not Pantera Related Stupid crook or stupid cops?
>> To: <detomaso at realbig.com>
>> Message-ID: <000a01c64700$c9f708e0$ca9733d0 at home>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> I have heard stories on morning talk radio of stupid criminals. I
>> would
> laugh and go about my day and never expect that it would happen so close
> to
> home. I live in a gated comunity with a clubhouse and gym with night
> vision
> cameras. Since the last hurricane our clubhouse is still being repaired.
> Workers have reported a suspiscous character in the mornings and our
> association management have collected video tapes of the individual
> sleeping
> in the clubhouse over the last two weeks. A few break ins have occured but
> our not so worthy police department have not been able to lift prints
> claiming they were too dirty. On the 9th one of my neighbors noticed some
> things were out of place in his office, calls the police and again could
> not
> turn up prints. After the police leaves, my neighbor gets on his computer
> and hits the down arrow in the address bar. The very first address that
> shows up is this www.myspace.com/youmyfriend Not recognizing the site he
> clicks on it. The bastard got on my neighbors computer to check his email.
> The funny part is, this is a blog link that allows the user to create a
> simple website, and smile for the camera. The dumbass took pics of himself
> and gave a full description including what school and years he went, for
> the
> ladies. Now the bad thing to this story is a few minutes ago I checked his
> site and he was last logged on today meaning the cops are too stupid to
> catch what could be the dumbest crook in West Palm Beach. So debate this,
> stupid cops or stupid crook.
>> Brian
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 30
>> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 20:37:48 EST
>> From: GRR456 at aol.com
>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Brand New 347 For Sale......
>> To: detomaso at realbig.com
>> Message-ID: <6b.56f7c6a8.3147786c at aol.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>>
>> Brand New 347 Engine built how you want it. Everything is new, including
> the
>> production based 302 block. What I have is a new block, new Ford
> Motorsport
>> GT40 Aluminum 6049-Y303 heads with larger 2.02 intake valves and 1.72
> Motorsport
>> Pedestal rockers. New gear drive kit, new harmonic balancer, new
> Motorsport
>> flywheel. I have the Coast High Street Fighter Kit. Everything has been
>> balanced to within a gram.
>>
>> I'll be using a hyd. roller cam that'll have a ton of low end torque, but
> be
>> suitable for everyday driving.
>>
>> This engine will conservatively make about 375 HP with 9.75 compression.
>> Torque should be in about the same range. That would be on an engine
>> dyno.
> It's
>> power range will be from about 1800 to 5800, and redline at about 6500.
>>
>> -Long block, Ford GT40 Aluminum heads, pushrods, rockers and your choice
> of
>> cam (to .515 lift), roller lifters, gear drive, oil pump, fully assembled
> and
>> balanced - $3695
>>
>> Complete engine, with everything listed above plus Edelbrock Performer
>> Intake, front cover, new stock type 3 or 4 bolt balancer and flywheel.
>> Put
> your oil
>> pan, carb, and accessories on and drop in your car - $4625
>>
>> Notes:
>> -I can dyno the engine for $600 additional. This is something I highly
>> recommend......
>>
>> Remember every part is Brand New , including the block!
>>
>> This is the high torque street version of what I am building for Mike
> Drew.
>>
>> If you have any questions, feel free to contact me. I am in Troy,
>> Michigan
>>
>> Gary
>> grr456 at aol.com
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 31
>> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 23:52:34 -0600
>> From: Dave Doddek <pantera at pobox.com>
>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Warning Aussies!
>> To: detomaso at realbig.com
>> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20060313235234.00aa8780 at mail.mtco.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> This is a warning to all those Pantera owners Down under. Crazy Dave is
>> coming to Brisbane. I will be in the land of the roo from the 22nd to
>> the
>> 28th in Brisbane and briefly in Perth the Evening of the 29th and 30th.
>> Not sure yet what my evening and weekend schedule would be, but where are
>> the Aussie Pantera owners located and who will buy me a beer?
>>
>> Dave "the crazy one" D
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> DeTomaso at realbig.com
>> http://ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>>
>> End of DeTomaso Digest, Vol 20, Issue 14
>> ****************************************
>>
>>
>> __________ Information NOD32 1.1442 (20060314) __________
>>
>> Ce message a ete verifie par NOD32 Antivirus System.
>> http://www.nod32.com
>>
>>
>
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