[DeTomaso] 2342 factory Group 4 pedigree
Patrick Hals
patrickhals at skynet.be
Tue Mar 14 10:37:40 EST 2006
Thank you very much Forest
I looked at the webside you advised, and Wow, nice little toys up there :>))
I was talking to Walter earlier today, and we are trying to have this car
racing at Le Mans this year with my Pantera Candy 2862....
This is why I am trying to get as much information as possible over its
racing pedigree, as there many applicants for Le Mans Classic. Having a
brilliant pedigree can be of help
Best and thank you again
Pat
----- Original Message -----
From: "Veloce" <Veloce at adelphia.net>
To: "Patrick Hals" <patrickhals at skynet.be>; <detomaso at realbig.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 2:49 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] 2342 factory Group 4 pedigree
> Patrick,
>
> Walter Dethier, the owner of the Warhol car, does not do email but he is
> very accessible by phone. Walter has compiled a lot of the history of this
> car - you would enjoy talking to him, if you have not already met him.
>
> We have quite a few pictures of this car on the New England Pantera web
> site:
>
> http://panteraownersnewengland.com/warhol_car.htm
>
> At this time the site is optimized for broadband and Internet Explorer. It
> may take awhile to download the slide show but it is worth the wait. In
> the near future we will load some profiles of local members and their
cars.
> Since Walter is a true enthusiast with several notable Panteras we will
> provide additional photos and background at that time.
>
> Best regards,
> Forest Majors
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Patrick Hals" <patrickhals at skynet.be>
> To: <detomaso at realbig.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 7:06 AM
> Subject: [DeTomaso] 2342 factory Group 4 pedigree
>
>
> > Hello
> > I was recently looking at the website of Pantera factory Group 4 VIN
2342.
> > http://program-motorsports.com/page2.html
> > This car won its class in the 1000 km of Monza in 1972.
> > Does anyone know the rest of the history of this car ?
> > Many thanks
> > Patrick
> > Candy # 2862
> > See you at Le Mans Classic
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <detomaso-request at realbig.com>
> > To: <detomaso at realbig.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 12:00 PM
> > Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 20, Issue 14
> >
> >
> >> Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to
> >> detomaso at realbig.com
> >>
> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >> http://ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >> detomaso-request at realbig.com
> >>
> >> You can reach the person managing the list at
> >> detomaso-owner at realbig.com
> >>
> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> >> than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..."
> >>
> >>
> >> Today's Topics:
> >>
> >> 1. Parting out Pantera in France (Patrick Hals)
> >> 2. Re: Parting out Pantera in France (CHARLESMCCALL at telefonica.net)
> >> 3. Re: Re: Parting out Pantera in France (JJD1010 at aol.com)
> >> 4. What is it? (JJD1010 at aol.com)
> >> 5. What is it? (fresnofinches at aol.com)
> >> 6. Re: What is it? (John Taphorn)
> >> 7. Re: Parting out a Pantera - in France (MikeLDrew at aol.com)
> >> 8. Re: Mass-Flo part 2 (Daniel C Jones)
> >> 9. Re: MOTOR OIL - DAZED & CONFUSED (Art Stephens)
> >> 10. Wandering Through the Archives (Was DAZED AND CONFUSED)
> >> (Matt Merritt)
> >> 11. Re: Wandering Through the Archives (Was DAZED AND CONFUSED)
> >> (SOBill at aol.com)
> >> 12. RE: Wandering Through the Archives (Was DAZED AND CONFUSED)
> >> (Mark McWhinney)
> >> 13. RE: Wandering Through the Archives (Was DAZED AND CONFUSED)
> >> (Matt Merritt)
> >> 14. Re: Re: Parting out Pantera in France (Tomas Gunnarsson)
> >> 15. A1 GP race--Must-see TV *TODAY* (MikeLDrew at aol.com)
> >> 16. Re: Mass-Flo part 2 (Mad Dog Antenucci)
> >> 17. Re: MOTOR OIL - DAZED & CONFUSED (Mad Dog Antenucci)
> >> 18. Busted engine mount bolts-NO MORE! (Tom Di Iulio)
> >> 19. Re: Busted engine mount bolts-NO MORE! (Charles Engles)
> >> 20. RE: Busted engine mount bolts-NO MORE! (michael frazier)
> >> 21. Re: Turbocharging Book (Dave Williams)
> >> 22. RE: Wandering Through the Archives (Was DAZED AND CONFUSED)
> >> (Mad Dog Antenucci)
> >> 23. Re: Busted engine mount bolts-NO MORE! (Mad Dog Antenucci)
> >> 24. Tony Panterra (Mad Dog Antenucci)
> >> 25. RE: Tony Panterra (John Bentley (jab))
> >> 26. RE: Tony Panterra (Mad Dog Antenucci)
> >> 27. RE: Busted engine mount bolts-NO MORE! (Tom Di Iulio)
> >> 28. Re: Wandering Through the Archives (Was DAZED AND CONFUSED)
> >> (JJD1010 at aol.com)
> >> 29. Not Pantera Related Stupid crook or stupid cops? (Brian)
> >> 30. Brand New 347 For Sale...... (GRR456 at aol.com)
> >> 31. Warning Aussies! (Dave Doddek)
> >>
> >>
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 1
> >> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:07:50 +0100
> >> From: "Patrick Hals" <patrickhals at skynet.be>
> >> Subject: [DeTomaso] Parting out Pantera in France
> >> To: <detomaso at realbig.com>, <CHARLESMCCALL at telefonica.net>,
> >> <fresnofinches at aol.com>
> >> Message-ID: <004501c64696$bffee6b0$6501a8c0 at patrickgle20pz>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >>
> >> Hi all
> >> I looked at the pics from e Bay, and I can assure you this is not a G4.
> >> There are a lot more holes in a G4 frame, believe me :>)) not only in
the
> >> frame sections under the doors, but also lots in the gearbox tunnel and
> > the
> >> rear panel between cockpit and engine
> >> Patrick
> >> Candy # 2862
> >> See you at Le Mans Classic
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 2
> >> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:36:38 +0100 (MET)
> >> From: "CHARLESMCCALL at telefonica.net" <CHARLESMCCALL at telefonica.net>
> >> Subject: [DeTomaso] Re: Parting out Pantera in France
> >> To: <patrickhals at skynet.be>, <detomaso at realbig.com>,
> >> <fresnofinches at aol.com>
> >> Message-ID: <25842104.1142256998262.JavaMail.root at ctps1>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="UTF-8"
> >>
> >> Patrick -
> >> Seeing as there were only 14 (?) genuine Group 4 cars manufactured, it
> >> would have been most surprising to find one being actioned for 4000
> >> euros, but life is funny sometimes!! You've basically confirmed what
> >> common sense would indicate...
> >>
> >> ----Mensaje original----
> >> De: patrickhals at skynet.be
> >> Recibido: 13/03/2006 13:07
> >> Para: <detomaso at realbig.com>, <CHARLESMCCALL at telefonica.net>,
> >> <fresnofinches at aol.com>
> >> Asunto: Parting out Pantera in France
> >>
> >> Hi all
> >> I looked at the pics from e Bay, and I can assure you this is not a
> >> G4.
> >> There are a lot more holes in a G4 frame, believe me :>)) not only in
> >> the
> >> frame sections under the doors, but also lots in the gearbox tunnel
> >> and the
> >> rear panel between cockpit and engine
> >> Patrick
> >> Candy # 2862
> >> See you at Le Mans Classic
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 3
> >> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:05:44 EST
> >> From: JJD1010 at aol.com
> >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Re: Parting out Pantera in France
> >> To: detomaso at realbig.com
> >> Message-ID: <92.362b00c6.3146d638 at aol.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> >>
> >> It appears that the chassis is actually in pretty good shape. I wonder
> >> why
> > it
> >> is being parted out?
> >>
> >> Jeff
> >> 6559
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 4
> >> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:18:20 EST
> >> From: JJD1010 at aol.com
> >> Subject: [DeTomaso] What is it?
> >> To: detomaso at realbig.com
> >> Message-ID: <2e2.3eb489e.3146d92c at aol.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> >>
> >>
> >
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/DeTomaso-Pantera-Misc-parts_W0QQitemZ4621513412
> >> QQcategoryZ10076QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
> >>
> >> >From ebay: At the top of the picture is a part I don't recognize. It's
a
> >> metal stamping with holes all across it. Anyone know?
> >>
> >> Jeff
> >> 6559
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 5
> >> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:47:30 -0500
> >> From: fresnofinches at aol.com
> >> Subject: [DeTomaso] What is it?
> >> To: detomaso at realbig.com
> >> Message-ID: <8C814C430B5CAFA-16B8-BADC at mblk-r36.sysops.aol.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
> >>
> >> Jeff,
> >>
> >> I saw that and scratched my head, too. Is it a bulkhead piece from
> >> under the car, the one that holds the cooling tubes?
> >>
> >> Larry
> >>
> >> Peace, be careful but DRIVE IT!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 6
> >> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:02:43 -0600
> >> From: "John Taphorn" <jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] What is it?
> >> To: <fresnofinches at aol.com>, <detomaso at realbig.com>
> >> Message-ID: <002201c646af$2e955ec0$c600a8c0 at Millennia>
> >>
> >> My reaction was the same. Although, I don't recognize it (or the
> > adjacent
> >> can) as Pantera Parts.
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: <fresnofinches at aol.com>
> >> To: <detomaso at realbig.com>
> >> Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 8:47 AM
> >> Subject: [DeTomaso] What is it?
> >>
> >>
> >> > Jeff,
> >> >
> >> > I saw that and scratched my head, too. Is it a bulkhead piece from
> > under
> >> > the car, the one that holds the cooling tubes?
> >> >
> >> > Larry
> >> >
> >> > Peace, be careful but DRIVE IT!
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> >
> >> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >> >
> >> > Archive Search Engine Now Available at
http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
> >> >
> >> > DeTomaso mailing list
> >> > DeTomaso at realbig.com
> >> > http://ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 7
> >> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:48:04 EST
> >> From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
> >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Parting out a Pantera - in France
> >> To: ParaPantera at aol.com, Fresnofinches at aol.com, detomaso at realbig.com
> >> Message-ID: <233.8838f54.3146ee34 at aol.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> >>
> >>
> >> In a message dated 3/12/06 22:08:12, parapantera at aol.com writes:
> >>
> >> << uh.........is that one of the factory race car chassis he is parting
> > out?
> >> >>
> >>
> >> >>>No, it's a standard Pantera.
> >>
> >> I know what you're thinking--you see the stamped holes in the panel.
But
> > no,
> >> it's just an ordinary road car.
> >>
> >> Mike
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 8
> >> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:00:56 -0600
> >> From: "Daniel C Jones" <daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Mass-Flo part 2
> >> To: detomaso at realbig.com
> >> Message-ID:
> >> <1c01d3e60603131000l33d3c5d4mbaba203df74bd031 at mail.gmail.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> >>
> >> > *When asked about the effects of reversion their response was that
the
> >> > "throttle body/ adapter/ meter combination work together to be
> >> > virtually
> >> > unaffected by reversion".
> >>
> >> Simply not true. Due to the mass air sensor location, their system is
> > worse
> >> than the stock Ford mass air set-up which is itself susceptible to
> > reversion.
> >> It's physics that applies everywhere except in the marketing universe.
> > For
> >> many engine combinations, this set-up will work fine. For others, it
> >> will
> >> not. If you have a lot of compression and overlap, I'd look elsewhere.
> >>
> >> > *The system uses a pair of "conventional O2 sensors not wideband".
> >>
> >> Their system uses a stock Ford EEC-IV computer which uses narrow band
> > O2's.
> >>
> >> > They seem to agree that is designed to be plug and play "requiring no
> > tune up
> >> > to get up and running". I just wonder if it is possible to tune this
> > system
> >> > properly once installed??
> >>
> >> You can tune it with one of the aftermarket tuners (Eectuner, TwEECer,
> > PMS)
> >> if you buy the right processor. Ford makes many different processors
and
> > not
> >> all supported by the aftermarket tuners. Understand that tuning will
not
> >> overcome the mass air sensor limitations. There is no magic here.
> > Mass-Flo's
> >> EFI systems use a factory EEC-IV mass air processors with no
> >> modifications
> >> other than a device to convert the GM frequency output to the analog
> > voltage
> >> the Ford EEC expects. The Mass-Flo systems are based on the A9L
Mustang
> > EEC
> >> which is supported by all of the above mentioned tuners.
> >>
> >> You can duplicate the Mass-Flo system with a single plane intake (set
up
> > for
> >> injection with injector bungs), a 90 degree elbow with throttle body, a
> > Ford
> >> EEC-IV processor, and a mass air meter matched to your injector size.
> > That
> >> set up would have the added benefit of allowing you to move the mass
air
> >> sensor, if necessary, and would not need the extra electronics that
> > conditions
> >> the GM frequency output to work with the Ford analog voltage input.
> >> Also,
> > the
> >> large single disc style throttle bodies usually make a bit more power
> >> than
> >> the 4 hole carb style. A friend runs that set up on his drag race
> >> Mustang
> >> with a PMS piggyback controller. Alternatively, you could do the same
> > thing
> >> with an aftermarket speed density or Alpha-N ECU (without the mass air
> > meter).
> >> That approach will be more flexible but will require additional tuning.
> >>
> >> > {short back-story - my thoughts are this system may have the
potential
> > to
> >> > match the performance of properly tuned race carburetor with the
added
> >> > benefits of fuel injection.....drivability, easier starting, fuel
> > economy
> >> > ;o), etc.... I still believe an IR injection system would be ideal
but
> > I
> >> > am exploring my options with a single carb style manifold right now.}
> >>
> >> The manifolding is a separate issue. The 4 barrel carb intake approach
> >> is
> >> fine if you choose the right control approach. Previously, I gave a
> > general
> >> overview of the three basic engine control schemes and what their
> > limitations
> >> are. If you choose to use the mass air approach, pick your cam
> > accordingly
> >> and read the Probst book on the Ford EEC.
> >>
> >> > Also, the "pie in the sky" method that they describe their system is
> > somewhat
> >> > annoying.
> >>
> >> That's a big red flag to me. When a company makes claims like that
they
> > are
> >> either incompetent (don't understand the limitations of their system)
or
> >> dishonest.
> >>
> >> > This is not a good analogy but here is goes anyway. If this system
was
> > the
> >> > answer to all prayers, then engines in Formula 1 and all other forms
of
> >> > performance vehicles would be using it.
> >>
> >> Ford ran the speed density EEC in Formula 1 as the mass air approach
was
> >> less reliable (a mass air meter in each stack to fail) and made less
> > power.
> >>
> >> Dan Jones
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 9
> >> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:14:52 -0800
> >> From: "Art Stephens" <artstephens at charter.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] MOTOR OIL - DAZED & CONFUSED
> >> To: "Mad Dog Antenucci" <teampantera at yahoo.com>,
> >> <detomaso at realbig.com>
> >> Message-ID: <004101c646ca$06e33710$4b29b618 at D3Z8N081>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> >> reply-type=original
> >>
> >> Dawg Man,
> >> Russ Fulp recommended that I run Castrol 20W/50 in my engine. I
> >> said
> > I
> >> was thinking about using synthetic for the Silver State (if I live long
> >> enough) to gain the extra heat protection. He didn't seem too crazy
> >> about
> >> that idea. If I recall correctly, he said he sets his engines up loose
> > and
> >> he thought the synthetic oil was not really ideal for his engines, or
> >> something like that? You might want to check with him.
> >> Art
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Mad Dog Antenucci" <teampantera at yahoo.com>
> >> To: <detomaso at realbig.com>
> >> Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 5:46 AM
> >> Subject: [DeTomaso] MOTOR OIL - DAZED & CONFUSED
> >>
> >>
> >> > Was at the parts store last night picking up HP1 filters and motor
oil
> > and
> >> > was amazed at the selection of oil available now.
> >> >
> >> > After just staring in awe at the dozens of motor oil choices for
about
> > 10
> >> > minutes I thought geez America really is a great place to live. ;-]
> >> >
> >> > Finally went with Mobil One 15-50 which I've used before....And
while
> >> > I
> >> > don't have any particular loyalty to any of the oil manufacturer's
and
> >> > have used most of the race oils on the market.... if I recall
correctly
> >> > the multi-grade oil like the Mobil 15-50 essentially flows 'more' to
a
> >> > cold motor and provides more protection to it hot...or so goes the
> >> > theme.....is that it essentially in simple dawg talk?
> >> >
> >> > MD, Waiting to hear the proper technical response from my oil
industry
> >> > engineer brothers in Texas! ;-]
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> >
> >> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >> >
> >> > Archive Search Engine Now Available at
http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
> >> >
> >> > DeTomaso mailing list
> >> > DeTomaso at realbig.com
> >> > http://ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 10
> >> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:33:31 -0800
> >> From: "Matt Merritt" <mmerritt at EventVehicles.com>
> >> Subject: [DeTomaso] Wandering Through the Archives (Was DAZED AND
> >> CONFUSED)
> >> To: "Detomaso \(E-mail\)" <detomaso at realbig.com>
> >> Message-ID:
> >> <029B2022F87E714EB1CC13F0205083251A7862 at eviserver.EventVehicles.local>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >>
> >> Hi All:
> >>
> >> Several years ago, in response to a question about motor oil, someone
> > wrote a very insightful post about oil types that sold me forevermore on
> > Chevron Delo 400 straight-30 oil.
> >>
> >> I saved the writer's very interesting information on my computer until
it
> > was (don't ask) stolen during the burglary of my office three weeks ago
> >>
> >> If someone could point me to the Forum's search engine I'll try to find
> >> it
> > and post it again.
> >>
> >> By the way, Russ Fulp told me that he specifically built my engine to
run
> > on dino-juice oil and to avoid synthetics.
> >>
> >> Matt Merritt
> >> #2171
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 11
> >> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:35:03 EST
> >> From: SOBill at aol.com
> >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Wandering Through the Archives (Was DAZED AND
> >> CONFUSED)
> >> To: mmerritt at EventVehicles.com
> >> Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
> >> Message-ID: <27a.60e625a.31471557 at aol.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> >>
> >> Matt,
> >>
> >> Try >>http://www.panteraclubnorcal.com/search.htm
> >>
> >> PCNC has implemented a Google search restricted to the realbig Pantera
> >> archives.
> >>
> >> Very fast and useful.
> >>
> >> SOBill Taylor
> >> sobill at aol.com
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 12
> >> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:44:19 -0800
> >> From: "Mark McWhinney" <msm at portata.com>
> >> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Wandering Through the Archives (Was DAZED AND
> >> CONFUSED)
> >> To: "'Matt Merritt'" <mmerritt at EventVehicles.com>, "'Detomaso
> >> (E-mail)'" <detomaso at realbig.com>
> >> Message-ID:
> >> <20060313184426.3A39232C06E at smtpauth00.csee.siteprotect.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >>
> >> Is this it?
> >>
> >> http://ftl.realbig.com/pipermail/detomaso/2004-February/038363.html
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
[mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]
> > On
> >> Behalf Of Matt Merritt
> >> Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 10:34 AM
> >> To: Detomaso (E-mail)
> >> Subject: [DeTomaso] Wandering Through the Archives (Was DAZED AND
> > CONFUSED)
> >>
> >> Hi All:
> >>
> >> Several years ago, in response to a question about motor oil, someone
> > wrote
> >> a very insightful post about oil types that sold me forevermore on
> >> Chevron
> >> Delo 400 straight-30 oil.
> >>
> >> I saved the writer's very interesting information on my computer until
it
> >> was (don't ask) stolen during the burglary of my office three weeks ago
> >>
> >> If someone could point me to the Forum's search engine I'll try to find
> >> it
> >> and post it again.
> >>
> >> By the way, Russ Fulp told me that he specifically built my engine to
run
> > on
> >> dino-juice oil and to avoid synthetics.
> >>
> >> Matt Merritt
> >> #2171
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >>
> >> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
> >>
> >> DeTomaso mailing list
> >> DeTomaso at realbig.com
> >> http://ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 13
> >> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:51:11 -0800
> >> From: "Matt Merritt" <mmerritt at EventVehicles.com>
> >> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Wandering Through the Archives (Was DAZED AND
> >> CONFUSED)
> >> To: "Detomaso \(E-mail\)" <detomaso at realbig.com>
> >> Message-ID:
> >> <029B2022F87E714EB1CC13F0205083251A7863 at eviserver.EventVehicles.local>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >>
> >> Ah hah! Found it in about 10 seconds, thanks to SOBill:
> >>
> >> I had an auto repair shop in Houston, Texas, which happens to be the
> >> petrochemical capital of the world. I have had many conversations with
> >> Chemical engineers at oil companies as well as Forensic Chemists at
> > analysis
> >> laboratories. I also performed EPA and DOT conversions on European Gra
y
> >> market cars in the 80's. These cars had to pass rigid emission testing
> >> at
> >> federally approved testing labs. I have also spoken with automotive
> >> engineers for Ford and Chevrolet. So forgive me for being soooooooo
> >> opinionated about this subject matter.
> >>
> >> There are two schools of thought regarding multi-grade motor oils.
> >>
> >> First school says, multi grades make engines last longer because they
> >> circulate quicker at start-up when most of the engine wear takes place.
> >>
> >> Second school says, straight grades make engines last longer because
they
> >> have better shear characteristics and do a better job of lubricating
the
> >> rings, which makes them last longer.
> >>
> >> Both of these schools have error in thought and implementation and
don't
> >> address all of the aspects of the oil.
> >>
> >> I maintain a third school of thought, which says a clean engine is a
> >> happy
> >> engine.
> >>
> >> I use Delo 400 30W by Chevron. It has all of the ratings including
> > diesel,
> >> gas, and turbo. This motor oil is not advertised at racetracks and
other
> >> than truckers; nobody knows what the hell it is. According to the
> > engineers
> >> at Chevron, Delo has the highest level of detergents and dispersants of
> > any
> >> motor oil. This means it will keep a motor clean and/or clean a dirty
> > motor.
> >> 18-wheelers that have diesel engines with turbochargers and
superchargers
> >> use this oil.
> >>
> >> So here is the poop. Multi grade motor oils are made from low grade
> > crude.
> >> The are man-made molecules created in a cat-cracker, short for
catalytic
> >> cracker - a chemical reactor for converting oils with high boiling
points
> >> into fuels with lower boiling points in the presence of a catalyst.
> >> These
> >> manmade molecules break down faster and create more deposits than the
> >> molecules found in straight grade motor oil. Straight grade motor oil
is
> >> made from premium crude, which is expensive and sometimes in short
> >> supply.
> >> For the reason just stated, oil companies love multi-grades because
they
> > can
> >> be made from junk and they are a value added product.
> >>
> >> Automakers began to use multi-grade motor oils because of
ever-tightening
> >> emission standards. The automotive engineers determined that the thin
> >> multi-grade motor oils sealed the rings better during cold starts and
> >> therefore caused fewer emissions. For those of you that are familiar,
> >> the
> >> entire focus these days on emissions, are concerned with the first five
> >> minutes of cold start, because that is about the only area of radical
> >> improvement that can be made. That is why preheated oxygen sensors
were
> >> developed and why they are trying to develop preheated catalysts for
the
> >> exhaust. Well, the EPA, in their infinite wisdom, told the manufactures
> >> if
> >> they wanted to use multi-grade motor oils to pass the emission testing,
> > that
> >> they would have to recommend the usage of multi-grades all the time.
> >> Hence
> >> the beginning of the oil recommendations we see today. As you may have
> >> noticed, over time the recommendations have gone from 20-50 to 10-40 to
> >> 5-30. The trend is due to the ever-tightening EPA requirements. When
the
> >> automakers need to make cleaner tail pipe emissions, for the next belt
> >> tightening, they just recommend thinner oil. About this time you
should
> > be
> >> feeling like a fool!!
> >>
> >> I experimented with this while attempting to pass European Gray market
> > cars
> >> through the EPA labs, and found this to be true. Pipe up out there if
> >> you
> >> are an automotive engineer of a petrochemical engineer of automotive
> >> products.
> >>
> >> I bought a 1988 Sea Ray in 1988. The boat had a 260 HP Chevrolet 350
cid
> >> motor. I did not trust the boat dealership and wanted to service my
boat
> >> myself. I owned a repair shop and was completely capable and
competent.
> > I
> >> also wanted to maintain my warranty with the boat dealer, just in case.
> >> After performing my first oil change, I stopped at the dealer and
> >> informed
> >> them of my oil change and provided them with the receipt from their
parts
> >> department for the filter. They said that there is no oil on this
> > receipt.
> >> What kind of oil did you use? I told them Delo 400 30W by Chevron.
They
> >> said good, you didn't use a multi-grade motor oil. If you had used a
> > multi
> >> grade, we would have to cancel your engine warranty. You see, there
are
> > no
> >> emission requirements on boats!
> >>
> >> You mentioned the word "cling" in your description of synthetics. The
> > most
> >> "clingy" oils are the ones with a high paraffin content (wax), which
> >> historically are the Pennsylvania crudes. As evidence, have you ever
> >> noticed on the old Pennzoil commercials, how they always use a farmer
to
> >> talk about how well the oil works in his tractor? Well, there is a
damn
> >> good reason for that! Tractors are not operated everyday. They
> >> sometimes
> >> sit for long periods of time without usage. Then when they are
started,
> >> there can have an exaggerated amount of crank bearing wear due to the
oil
> >> running off during storage. Pennzoil would leave a waxy residue that
> > would
> >> help lubricate the bearings until the oil flow began. Their best
> >> spokesman
> >> would have to be a person who is cheap, and leaves their engines idle
for
> >> long periods, like a farmer!
> >>
> >> Although this above characterization also sounds like a classic car
buff
> > or
> >> a Pantera owner, I would not recommend high paraffin crudes. They
suffer
> >> from the same problem as multi-grades, they break down faster and leave
> > more
> >> deposits (waxy looking deposits).
> >>
> >> Synthetics were developed for jet aircraft turbine engines. In the
early
> >> days of turbine engines, the motor oil would break down and leave
> >> deposits
> >> and cause engine damage, which would crash the plane. Synthetics
allowed
> >> higher operating temperatures with almost no breakdown (visualize the
> >> synthetic oil commercial where they fry conventional oil in a pan and
> >> then
> >> scrape the deposits with a spatula). However, in jet engines, the oil
> > does
> >> not seal the combustion chamber like in a car engine. In the early
> >> marketing days of synthetic motor oil marketing, the salesman said you
> > could
> >> leave the oil in the car for 50,000 miles, just change the filter once
or
> >> twice in this period and it will be fine. They used to sell special
> >> filter
> >> brackets that held two filters and it was bolted to a fender or
> >> something.
> >> Well, the engineers and salesman were only considering the breakdown
> > aspect
> >> of the oil, not the accumulation of combustion acids. Synthetics are
the
> >> best, but must be changed as frequently at regular motor oil to prevent
> >> combustion acid damage.
> >>
> >> There are some cars that are so hot that they have to run synthetics or
> >> engine deposits will form and cause engine damage even at 3000 mile oil
> >> change intervals. The new aluminum engine corvettes are a good example
> >> of
> >> this trend. High output motors that generate a lot of heat or that are
> >> operated in high RPM conditions like boats, Panteras, turbine engines,
> > etc.
> >>
> >> Slow warm up periods also add a lot of combustion acids to the oil and
> >> can
> >> be more harmful than driving cold. Driving forces the engine to warm
up
> >> faster and changes the combustion chamber temperature and chemistry.
So
> > my
> >> recommendation on oil, Delo 400 30W by Chevron or Synthetic oil changed
> >> frequently. Warm up a little, but not a lot. Start the car and use it
> >> rather than allowing long periods of inactivity.
> >>
> >> With a bottomless budget, use straight 30W or a heavy synthetic like
> > 20-50W,
> >> use an oil preheater and an electric oil pump to circulate low pressure
> > oil
> >> in the engine before cranking (like a turbine engine). Change the oil
> >> before it discolors or every 3000 miles (or 3 months if it sits a lot).
> > Use
> >> multi grades in cold climates where 20 degree F or below start-ups are
> >> expected. Cold climate is about the only really good use for
> > multi-grades.
> >> Synthetic multi-grades do not suffer from the same problems as natural
> > crude
> >> multi-grades. They are made multi-grade because of the manufacturer
> >> requirements, which are EPA requirements. OMG, Spark plugs I will let
> >> someone else explain.
> >>
> >> Richard Schulze, P. E.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Plotkin, Richard (NBC Universal, SPS LLC)
> > [mailto:Richard.Plotkin at nbcuni.com]
> >> Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 10:39 AM
> >> To: Matt Merritt
> >> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Wandering Through the Archives (Was DAZED AND
> > CONFUSED)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> now located at the bottom of every post.....
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
> >> [ mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]On Behalf Of Matt Merritt
> >> Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 10:34 AM
> >> To: Detomaso (E-mail)
> >> Subject: [DeTomaso] Wandering Through the Archives (Was DAZED AND
> >> CONFUSED)
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi All:
> >>
> >> Several years ago, in response to a question about motor oil, someone
> > wrote a very insightful post about oil types that sold me forevermore on
> > Chevron Delo 400 straight-30 oil.
> >>
> >> I saved the writer's very interesting information on my computer until
it
> > was (don't ask) stolen during the burglary of my office three weeks ago
> >>
> >> If someone could point me to the Forum's search engine I'll try to find
> >> it
> > and post it again.
> >>
> >> By the way, Russ Fulp told me that he specifically built my engine to
run
> > on dino-juice oil and to avoid synthetics.
> >>
> >> Matt Merritt
> >> #2171
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >>
> >> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
> >>
> >> DeTomaso mailing list
> >> DeTomaso at realbig.com
> >> http://ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 14
> >> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 20:13:28 +0100
> >> From: "Tomas Gunnarsson" <guson at home.se>
> >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Re: Parting out Pantera in France
> >> To: <detomaso at realbig.com>
> >> Message-ID: <005a01c646d2$83844cc0$e9a3c452 at bb.systeamnat.se>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >>
> >> Pretty good shape? If you look at the bottom right pic of the engine
bay
> > you'll see that the whole left wheel well side of the box section is
gone
> > and you see the wheel well reinforcement from the inside. The front
wheel
> > arches look like they have ben cut up and flares have been riveted on.
I'm
> > thinking 10-20kUSD worth of bodywork before it's ready to go out to
paint.
> >>
> >> Tomas
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: <JJD1010 at aol.com>
> >> To: <detomaso at realbig.com>
> >> Sent: den 13 mars 2006 15:05
> >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Re: Parting out Pantera in France
> >>
> >>
> >> > It appears that the chassis is actually in pretty good shape. I
wonder
> > why it
> >> > is being parted out?
> >> >
> >> > Jeff
> >> > 6559
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> >
> >> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >> >
> >> > Archive Search Engine Now Available at
http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
> >> >
> >> > DeTomaso mailing list
> >> > DeTomaso at realbig.com
> >> > http://ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 15
> >> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:42:15 EST
> >> From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
> >> Subject: [DeTomaso] A1 GP race--Must-see TV *TODAY*
> >> To: DeTomaso at realbig.com
> >> Message-ID: <282.7167df3.31472517 at aol.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> >>
> >> Hi guys,
> >>
> >> Apparently, the A1 GP race held at Laguna Seca was absolutely
spectacular
> >> yesterday.
> >>
> >> For those who aren't familiar, A1 GP is an international racing series
> > rather
> >> like the PGA Senior's tour, where former greats from different
countries
> > are
> >> matched against one another in identical F-1 cars. Races are held at
> > various
> >> tracks around the world.
> >>
> >> At yesterday's race at Laguna Seca, apparently it was just pouring with
> > rain,
> >> making for some really spectacular racing.
> >>
> >> The race is being rebroadcast TODAY at noon Pacific, 3:00 p.m. Eastern,
> >> on
> >> the Outdoor Living Network channel. Definitely one to TIVO and share
> >> with
> > your
> >> buddies!
> >>
> >> Mike (VHS for me, thanks!
> >>
> >> Mike
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 16
> >> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:26:09 -0800 (PST)
> >> From: Mad Dog Antenucci <teampantera at yahoo.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Mass-Flo part 2
> >> To: Daniel C Jones <daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com>, detomaso at realbig.com
> >> Message-ID: <20060313202609.38335.qmail at web50106.mail.yahoo.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> >>
> >> If I had a buck everytime someone suggested I call a supplier for
> > information or the IR EFI system Mike Trusty is building for me I'd have
> > at
> > least enough money for a couple cups of that gay coffee at Starbucks.
> >>
> >> To me I am depending on the advise of Mike and the people I know and
> > trust. Your exactly right on Dan........as usual! ;-]
> >>
> >> MD
> >>
> >> Daniel C Jones <daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > *When asked about the effects of reversion their response was that
> >> the
> >> > "throttle body/ adapter/ meter combination work together to be
> >> > virtually
> >> > unaffected by reversion".
> >>
> >> Simply not true. Due to the mass air sensor location, their system is
> > worse
> >> than the stock Ford mass air set-up which is itself susceptible to
> > reversion.
> >> It's physics that applies everywhere except in the marketing universe.
> >> For
> >> many engine combinations, this set-up will work fine. For others, it
will
> >> not. If you have a lot of compression and overlap, I'd look elsewhere.
> >>
> >> > *The system uses a pair of "conventional O2 sensors not wideband".
> >>
> >> Their system uses a stock Ford EEC-IV computer which uses narrow band
> > O2's.
> >>
> >> > They seem to agree that is designed to be plug and play "requiring no
> > tune up
> >> > to get up and running". I just wonder if it is possible to tune this
> > system
> >> > properly once installed??
> >>
> >> You can tune it with one of the aftermarket tuners (Eectuner, TwEECer,
> > PMS)
> >> if you buy the right processor. Ford makes many different processors
and
> > not
> >> all supported by the aftermarket tuners. Understand that tuning will
not
> >> overcome the mass air sensor limitations. There is no magic here.
> > Mass-Flo's
> >> EFI systems use a factory EEC-IV mass air processors with no
> >> modifications
> >> other than a device to convert the GM frequency output to the analog
> > voltage
> >> the Ford EEC expects. The Mass-Flo systems are based on the A9L Mustang
> > EEC
> >> which is supported by all of the above mentioned tuners.
> >>
> >> You can duplicate the Mass-Flo system with a single plane intake (set
up
> > for
> >> injection with injector bungs), a 90 degree elbow with throttle body, a
> > Ford
> >> EEC-IV processor, and a mass air meter matched to your injector size.
> >> That
> >> set up would have the added benefit of allowing you to move the mass
air
> >> sensor, if necessary, and would not need the extra electronics that
> > conditions
> >> the GM frequency output to work with the Ford analog voltage input.
Also,
> > the
> >> large single disc style throttle bodies usually make a bit more power
> >> than
> >> the 4 hole carb style. A friend runs that set up on his drag race
Mustang
> >> with a PMS piggyback controller. Alternatively, you could do the same
> > thing
> >> with an aftermarket speed density or Alpha-N ECU (without the mass air
> > meter).
> >> That approach will be more flexible but will require additional tuning.
> >>
> >> > {short back-story - my thoughts are this system may have the
potential
> > to
> >> > match the performance of properly tuned race carburetor with the
added
> >> > benefits of fuel injection.....drivability, easier starting, fuel
> > economy
> >> > ;o), etc.... I still believe an IR injection system would be ideal
but
> >> > I
> >
> >> > am exploring my options with a single carb style manifold right now.}
> >>
> >> The manifolding is a separate issue. The 4 barrel carb intake approach
is
> >> fine if you choose the right control approach. Previously, I gave a
> > general
> >> overview of the three basic engine control schemes and what their
> > limitations
> >> are. If you choose to use the mass air approach, pick your cam
> >> accordingly
> >> and read the Probst book on the Ford EEC.
> >>
> >> > Also, the "pie in the sky" method that they describe their system is
> > somewhat
> >> > annoying.
> >>
> >> That's a big red flag to me. When a company makes claims like that they
> > are
> >> either incompetent (don't understand the limitations of their system)
or
> >> dishonest.
> >>
> >> > This is not a good analogy but here is goes anyway. If this system
was
> > the
> >> > answer to all prayers, then engines in Formula 1 and all other forms
of
> >> > performance vehicles would be using it.
> >>
> >> Ford ran the speed density EEC in Formula 1 as the mass air approach
was
> >> less reliable (a mass air meter in each stack to fail) and made less
> > power.
> >>
> >> Dan Jones
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >>
> >> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
> >>
> >> DeTomaso mailing list
> >> DeTomaso at realbig.com
> >> http://ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 17
> >> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:33:07 -0800 (PST)
> >> From: Mad Dog Antenucci <teampantera at yahoo.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] MOTOR OIL - DAZED & CONFUSED
> >> To: Art Stephens <artstephens at charter.net>, detomaso at realbig.com
> >> Message-ID: <20060313203307.77875.qmail at web50104.mail.yahoo.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> >>
> >> On this point I don't agree with Russ.
> >> I don't need to check with him. ;-]
> >>
> >> I don't know what ideal is.....I love Russ and I love what he did
with
> > the engine...and I did use Castrol 20/50 for breakin and the first
couple
> > ORR endurance races......since that time I have went BACK to synthetic.
Do
> > YOU or others need it for the street, a 20 minute track session or low
end
> > engine speeds in ORR? I think the answer is definately no.
> >>
> >> BUT, if YOU, me and others are running at or near WOT in an endurance
> > event I think the synthetic is a plus for all the reasons we have
> > previously
> > discussed.
> >>
> >> MD
> >>
> >> Art Stephens <artstephens at charter.net> wrote:
> >> Dawg Man,
> >> Russ Fulp recommended that I run Castrol 20W/50 in my engine. I said I
> >> was thinking about using synthetic for the Silver State (if I live long
> >> enough) to gain the extra heat protection. He didn't seem too crazy
about
> >> that idea. If I recall correctly, he said he sets his engines up loose
> >> and
> >> he thought the synthetic oil was not really ideal for his engines, or
> >> something like that? You might want to check with him.
> >> Art
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Mad Dog Antenucci"
> >> To:
> >> Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 5:46 AM
> >> Subject: [DeTomaso] MOTOR OIL - DAZED & CONFUSED
> >>
> >>
> >> > Was at the parts store last night picking up HP1 filters and motor
oil
> > and
> >> > was amazed at the selection of oil available now.
> >> >
> >> > After just staring in awe at the dozens of motor oil choices for
about
> > 10
> >> > minutes I thought geez America really is a great place to live. ;-]
> >> >
> >> > Finally went with Mobil One 15-50 which I've used before....And while
I
> >> > don't have any particular loyalty to any of the oil manufacturer's
and
> >> > have used most of the race oils on the market.... if I recall
correctly
> >> > the multi-grade oil like the Mobil 15-50 essentially flows 'more' to
a
> >> > cold motor and provides more protection to it hot...or so goes the
> >> > theme.....is that it essentially in simple dawg talk?
> >> >
> >> > MD, Waiting to hear the proper technical response from my oil
industry
> >> > engineer brothers in Texas! ;-]
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> >
> >> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >> >
> >> > Archive Search Engine Now Available at
http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
> >> >
> >> > DeTomaso mailing list
> >> > DeTomaso at realbig.com
> >> > http://ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >>
> >> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
> >>
> >> DeTomaso mailing list
> >> DeTomaso at realbig.com
> >> http://ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 18
> >> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:20:40 -0700
> >> From: "Tom Di Iulio" <diiulio at ix.netcom.com>
> >> Subject: [DeTomaso] Busted engine mount bolts-NO MORE!
> >> To: <detomaso at realbig.com>
> >> Message-ID: <000001c646e3$fe3fc370$6501a8c0 at yourfsyly0jtwn>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi folks,
> >> Last week I whined like a little girl about some busted engine mount
> >> bolts and the EZ-out tips I broke off in each sheared stud. Well, I'm
> >> proud to say I've "re-grown a pair" and have successfully drilled out
> >> each busted stud with a tungsten carbide bit equipped dremel.
> >> I have met many challenges in my "car life" and have been beaten in
> >> quite a few but today, goodness has triumphed over evil.
> >> "Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, hear the lamentations
> >> of their women".
> >> Today I am Conan.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 19
> >> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:40:15 -0600
> >> From: "Charles Engles" <cengles at cox.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Busted engine mount bolts-NO MORE!
> >> To: "Tom Di Iulio" <diiulio at ix.netcom.com>
> >> Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
> >> Message-ID: <000b01c646e6$b9078ce0$6501a8c0 at server>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >>
> >> Dear Conan,
> >>
> >> Did you accomplish this victory with the engine in situ or
> > removed
> >> from the Pantera?
> >>
> >> Very impressive, Chuck Engles
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Tom Di Iulio" <diiulio at ix.netcom.com>
> >> To: <detomaso at realbig.com>
> >> Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 3:20 PM
> >> Subject: [DeTomaso] Busted engine mount bolts-NO MORE!
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Hi folks,
> >> > Last week I whined like a little girl about some busted engine mount
> >> > bolts and the EZ-out tips I broke off in each sheared stud. Well, I'm
> >> > proud to say I've "re-grown a pair" and have successfully drilled out
> >> > each busted stud with a tungsten carbide bit equipped dremel.
> >> > I have met many challenges in my "car life" and have been beaten in
> >> > quite a few but today, goodness has triumphed over evil.
> >> > "Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, hear the
lamentations
> >> > of their women".
> >> > Today I am Conan.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> >
> >> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >> >
> >> > Archive Search Engine Now Available at
http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
> >> >
> >> > DeTomaso mailing list
> >> > DeTomaso at realbig.com
> >> > http://ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 20
> >> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:53:55 -0600
> >> From: "michael frazier" <red3644 at hotmail.com>
> >> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Busted engine mount bolts-NO MORE!
> >> To: diiulio at ix.netcom.com, detomaso at realbig.com
> >> Message-ID: <BAY109-F29C8BFF4612EC3E0D83ADEB9E00 at phx.gbl>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
> >>
> >> Very good! Now don't break anything else...it's too close to Big Bend
to
> > be
> >> messin' around.
> >> See you there.
> >> Michael
> >> Gruppo Rompiculi Corsa Big Bend Open Road Race---April 22.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 21
> >> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:11:49 -0600
> >> From: Dave Williams <ronin at aristotle.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Turbocharging Book
> >> To: unlisted-recipients:; (no To-header on input)
> >> Cc: "detomaso at realbig.com" <detomaso at realbig.com>
> >> Message-ID: <4415EE25.7050707 at aristotle.net>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> >>
> >> F. & D. Terry wrote:
> >>
> >> > A good book to have is the one written by Hugh MacInnes titled
> >> > Turbochargers. It is a H.P. Books publication and probably hard to
find
> >> > today.
> >>
> >> There are two, possibly three, editions of that book, with
> >> substantially different text between them. The first edition was
> >> heavier on theory, and the later ones heavier with "how to".
> >>
> >>
> >> >> I'm planning to add to my library, and this book looks good, but
isn't
> >> >> real cheap
> >> >> Forced Induction Performance Tuning A Practical Guide to
> >> >> Supercharging and Turbocharging by A. Graham Bell Is any
> >> >> familiar with this book?
> >>
> >> I haven't seen that one, but his two-stroke and four-stroke "tuning"
> >> books were good.
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 22
> >> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:24:33 -0800 (PST)
> >> From: Mad Dog Antenucci <teampantera at yahoo.com>
> >> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Wandering Through the Archives (Was DAZED AND
> >> CONFUSED)
> >> To: Matt Merritt <mmerritt at EventVehicles.com>, "Detomaso \(E-mail\)"
> >> <detomaso at realbig.com>
> >> Message-ID: <20060313222433.10922.qmail at web50102.mail.yahoo.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> >>
> >> Excellent...definately worth reading. We can all agree on one thing and
> > that is irregardless of preferred motor oil 'clean-is-better'. ;-]
> >>
> >> MD
> >>
> >> Matt Merritt <mmerritt at EventVehicles.com> wrote:
> >> Ah hah! Found it in about 10 seconds, thanks to SOBill:
> >>
> >> I had an auto repair shop in Houston, Texas, which happens to be the
> >> petrochemical capital of the world. I have had many conversations with
> >> Chemical engineers at oil companies as well as Forensic Chemists at
> > analysis
> >> laboratories. I also performed EPA and DOT conversions on European Gray
> >> market cars in the 80's. These cars had to pass rigid emission testing
at
> >> federally approved testing labs. I have also spoken with automotive
> >> engineers for Ford and Chevrolet. So forgive me for being soooooooo
> >> opinionated about this subject matter.
> >>
> >> There are two schools of thought regarding multi-grade motor oils.
> >>
> >> First school says, multi grades make engines last longer because they
> >> circulate quicker at start-up when most of the engine wear takes place.
> >>
> >> Second school says, straight grades make engines last longer because
they
> >> have better shear characteristics and do a better job of lubricating
the
> >> rings, which makes them last longer.
> >>
> >> Both of these schools have error in thought and implementation and
don't
> >> address all of the aspects of the oil.
> >>
> >> I maintain a third school of thought, which says a clean engine is a
> >> happy
> >> engine.
> >>
> >> I use Delo 400 30W by Chevron. It has all of the ratings including
> >> diesel,
> >> gas, and turbo. This motor oil is not advertised at racetracks and
other
> >> than truckers; nobody knows what the hell it is. According to the
> > engineers
> >> at Chevron, Delo has the highest level of detergents and dispersants of
> > any
> >> motor oil. This means it will keep a motor clean and/or clean a dirty
> > motor.
> >> 18-wheelers that have diesel engines with turbochargers and
superchargers
> >> use this oil.
> >>
> >> So here is the poop. Multi grade motor oils are made from low grade
> >> crude.
> >> The are man-made molecules created in a cat-cracker, short for
catalytic
> >> cracker - a chemical reactor for converting oils with high boiling
points
> >> into fuels with lower boiling points in the presence of a catalyst.
These
> >> manmade molecules break down faster and create more deposits than the
> >> molecules found in straight grade motor oil. Straight grade motor oil
is
> >> made from premium crude, which is expensive and sometimes in short
> >> supply.
> >> For the reason just stated, oil companies love multi-grades because
they
> > can
> >> be made from junk and they are a value added product.
> >>
> >> Automakers began to use multi-grade motor oils because of
ever-tightening
> >> emission standards. The automotive engineers determined that the thin
> >> multi-grade motor oils sealed the rings better during cold starts and
> >> therefore caused fewer emissions. For those of you that are familiar,
the
> >> entire focus these days on emissions, are concerned with the first five
> >> minutes of cold start, because that is about the only area of radical
> >> improvement that can be made. That is why preheated oxygen sensors were
> >> developed and why they are trying to develop preheated catalysts for
the
> >> exhaust. Well, the EPA, in their infinite wisdom, told the manufactures
> >> if
> >> they wanted to use multi-grade motor oils to pass the emission testing,
> > that
> >> they would have to recommend the usage of multi-grades all the time.
> >> Hence
> >> the beginning of the oil recommendations we see today. As you may have
> >> noticed, over time the recommendations have gone from 20-50 to 10-40 to
> >> 5-30. The trend is due to the ever-tightening EPA requirements. When
the
> >> automakers need to make cleaner tail pipe emissions, for the next belt
> >> tightening, they just recommend thinner oil. About this time you should
> >> be
> >> feeling like a fool!!
> >>
> >> I experimented with this while attempting to pass European Gray market
> > cars
> >> through the EPA labs, and found this to be true. Pipe up out there if
you
> >> are an automotive engineer of a petrochemical engineer of automotive
> >> products.
> >>
> >> I bought a 1988 Sea Ray in 1988. The boat had a 260 HP Chevrolet 350
cid
> >> motor. I did not trust the boat dealership and wanted to service my
boat
> >> myself. I owned a repair shop and was completely capable and competent.
I
> >> also wanted to maintain my warranty with the boat dealer, just in case.
> >> After performing my first oil change, I stopped at the dealer and
> >> informed
> >> them of my oil change and provided them with the receipt from their
parts
> >> department for the filter. They said that there is no oil on this
> >> receipt.
> >> What kind of oil did you use? I told them Delo 400 30W by Chevron. They
> >> said good, you didn't use a multi-grade motor oil. If you had used a
> >> multi
> >> grade, we would have to cancel your engine warranty. You see, there are
> >> no
> >> emission requirements on boats!
> >>
> >> You mentioned the word "cling" in your description of synthetics. The
> >> most
> >> "clingy" oils are the ones with a high paraffin content (wax), which
> >> historically are the Pennsylvania crudes. As evidence, have you ever
> >> noticed on the old Pennzoil commercials, how they always use a farmer
to
> >> talk about how well the oil works in his tractor? Well, there is a damn
> >> good reason for that! Tractors are not operated everyday. They
sometimes
> >> sit for long periods of time without usage. Then when they are started,
> >> there can have an exaggerated amount of crank bearing wear due to the
oil
> >> running off during storage. Pennzoil would leave a waxy residue that
> >> would
> >> help lubricate the bearings until the oil flow began. Their best
> >> spokesman
> >> would have to be a person who is cheap, and leaves their engines idle
for
> >> long periods, like a farmer!
> >>
> >> Although this above characterization also sounds like a classic car
buff
> > or
> >> a Pantera owner, I would not recommend high paraffin crudes. They
suffer
> >> from the same problem as multi-grades, they break down faster and leave
> > more
> >> deposits (waxy looking deposits).
> >>
> >> Synthetics were developed for jet aircraft turbine engines. In the
early
> >> days of turbine engines, the motor oil would break down and leave
> >> deposits
> >> and cause engine damage, which would crash the plane. Synthetics
allowed
> >> higher operating temperatures with almost no breakdown (visualize the
> >> synthetic oil commercial where they fry conventional oil in a pan and
> >> then
> >> scrape the deposits with a spatula). However, in jet engines, the oil
> >> does
> >> not seal the combustion chamber like in a car engine. In the early
> >> marketing days of synthetic motor oil marketing, the salesman said you
> > could
> >> leave the oil in the car for 50,000 miles, just change the filter once
or
> >> twice in this period and it will be fine. They used to sell special
> >> filter
> >> brackets that held two filters and it was bolted to a fender or
> >> something.
> >> Well, the engineers and salesman were only considering the breakdown
> > aspect
> >> of the oil, not the accumulation of combustion acids. Synthetics are
the
> >> best, but must be changed as frequently at regular motor oil to prevent
> >> combustion acid damage.
> >>
> >> There are some cars that are so hot that they have to run synthetics or
> >> engine deposits will form and cause engine damage even at 3000 mile oil
> >> change intervals. The new aluminum engine corvettes are a good example
of
> >> this trend. High output motors that generate a lot of heat or that are
> >> operated in high RPM conditions like boats, Panteras, turbine engines,
> > etc.
> >>
> >> Slow warm up periods also add a lot of combustion acids to the oil and
> >> can
> >> be more harmful than driving cold. Driving forces the engine to warm up
> >> faster and changes the combustion chamber temperature and chemistry. So
> >> my
> >> recommendation on oil, Delo 400 30W by Chevron or Synthetic oil changed
> >> frequently. Warm up a little, but not a lot. Start the car and use it
> >> rather than allowing long periods of inactivity.
> >>
> >> With a bottomless budget, use straight 30W or a heavy synthetic like
> > 20-50W,
> >> use an oil preheater and an electric oil pump to circulate low pressure
> > oil
> >> in the engine before cranking (like a turbine engine). Change the oil
> >> before it discolors or every 3000 miles (or 3 months if it sits a lot).
> > Use
> >> multi grades in cold climates where 20 degree F or below start-ups are
> >> expected. Cold climate is about the only really good use for
> >> multi-grades.
> >> Synthetic multi-grades do not suffer from the same problems as natural
> > crude
> >> multi-grades. They are made multi-grade because of the manufacturer
> >> requirements, which are EPA requirements. OMG, Spark plugs I will let
> >> someone else explain.
> >>
> >> Richard Schulze, P. E.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Plotkin, Richard (NBC Universal, SPS LLC)
> > [mailto:Richard.Plotkin at nbcuni.com]
> >> Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 10:39 AM
> >> To: Matt Merritt
> >> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Wandering Through the Archives (Was DAZED AND
> > CONFUSED)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> now located at the bottom of every post.....
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
> >> [ mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]On Behalf Of Matt Merritt
> >> Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 10:34 AM
> >> To: Detomaso (E-mail)
> >> Subject: [DeTomaso] Wandering Through the Archives (Was DAZED AND
> >> CONFUSED)
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi All:
> >>
> >> Several years ago, in response to a question about motor oil, someone
> > wrote a very insightful post about oil types that sold me forevermore on
> > Chevron Delo 400 straight-30 oil.
> >>
> >> I saved the writer's very interesting information on my computer until
it
> > was (don't ask) stolen during the burglary of my office three weeks ago
> >>
> >> If someone could point me to the Forum's search engine I'll try to find
> >> it
> > and post it again.
> >>
> >> By the way, Russ Fulp told me that he specifically built my engine to
run
> > on dino-juice oil and to avoid synthetics.
> >>
> >> Matt Merritt
> >> #2171
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >>
> >> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
> >>
> >> DeTomaso mailing list
> >> DeTomaso at realbig.com
> >> http://ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >>
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> >>
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> >> DeTomaso at realbig.com
> >> http://ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 23
> >> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:28:58 -0800 (PST)
> >> From: Mad Dog Antenucci <teampantera at yahoo.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Busted engine mount bolts-NO MORE!
> >> To: Tom Di Iulio <diiulio at ix.netcom.com>, detomaso at realbig.com
> >> Message-ID: <20060313222858.77709.qmail at web50109.mail.yahoo.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> >>
> >> RIGHT ON TOMMY BOY!!!
> >> YOU are da MAN.
> >>
> >> Tom Di Iulio <diiulio at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi folks,
> >> Last week I whined like a little girl about some busted engine mount
> >> bolts and the EZ-out tips I broke off in each sheared stud. Well, I'm
> >> proud to say I've "re-grown a pair" and have successfully drilled out
> >> each busted stud with a tungsten carbide bit equipped dremel.
> >> I have met many challenges in my "car life" and have been beaten in
> >> quite a few but today, goodness has triumphed over evil.
> >> "Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, hear the lamentations
> >> of their women".
> >> Today I am Conan.
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >>
> >> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
> >>
> >> DeTomaso mailing list
> >> DeTomaso at realbig.com
> >> http://ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 24
> >> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:40:20 -0800 (PST)
> >> From: Mad Dog Antenucci <teampantera at yahoo.com>
> >> Subject: [DeTomaso] Tony Panterra
> >> To: detomaso at realbig.com
> >> Message-ID: <20060313224020.61376.qmail at web50108.mail.yahoo.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> >>
> >> I'm at the Deist Safety shop this morning getting my fire suppression
> > bottle re-charged and I met a guy ordering a race suit name "Tony
> > Panterra"
> > (quess they misspelled his last name hehe). I was like WTF is your name
> > again!!! ;-]
> >>
> >> In anycase he was buying a race suit to go to the NORC/Silver State
in
> > May....he is running a bad ass restored Trans Am....getouttahere!
> >>
> >> Its not a Pantera (yet) but it is an awsome looking ride....
> >> MD
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 25
> >> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:59:05 -0800
> >> From: "John Bentley \(jab\)" <jab at cisco.com>
> >> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Tony Panterra
> >> To: "Mad Dog Antenucci" <teampantera at yahoo.com>,
> >> <detomaso at realbig.com>
> >> Message-ID:
> >> <BB87E6B2C147324A859C6ABDB1C1930E01D69C90 at xmb-sjc-22d.amer.cisco.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >>
> >> Does Deist give you a volume discount? :)
> >>
> >> JB
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
[mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]
> >> On Behalf Of Mad Dog Antenucci
> >> Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 2:40 PM
> >> To: detomaso at realbig.com
> >> Subject: [DeTomaso] Tony Panterra
> >>
> >> I'm at the Deist Safety shop this morning getting my fire suppression
> >> bottle re-charged and I met a guy ordering a race suit name "Tony
> >> Panterra" (quess they misspelled his last name hehe). I was like WTF is
> >> your name again!!! ;-]
> >>
> >> In anycase he was buying a race suit to go to the NORC/Silver State
in
> >> May....he is running a bad ass restored Trans Am....getouttahere!
> >>
> >> Its not a Pantera (yet) but it is an awsome looking ride....
> >> MD
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >>
> >> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
> >>
> >> DeTomaso mailing list
> >> DeTomaso at realbig.com
> >> http://ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 26
> >> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:01:15 -0800 (PST)
> >> From: Mad Dog Antenucci <teampantera at yahoo.com>
> >> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Tony Panterra
> >> To: "John Bentley \(jab\)" <jab at cisco.com>, detomaso at realbig.com
> >> Message-ID: <20060313230115.38360.qmail at web50104.mail.yahoo.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> >>
> >> 20% ;-]
> >>
> >> "John Bentley (jab)" <jab at cisco.com> wrote: Does Deist give you a
volume
> > discount? :)
> >>
> >> JB
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
[mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]
> >> On Behalf Of Mad Dog Antenucci
> >> Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 2:40 PM
> >> To: detomaso at realbig.com
> >> Subject: [DeTomaso] Tony Panterra
> >>
> >> I'm at the Deist Safety shop this morning getting my fire suppression
> >> bottle re-charged and I met a guy ordering a race suit name "Tony
> >> Panterra" (quess they misspelled his last name hehe). I was like WTF is
> >> your name again!!! ;-]
> >>
> >> In anycase he was buying a race suit to go to the NORC/Silver State in
> >> May....he is running a bad ass restored Trans Am....getouttahere!
> >>
> >> Its not a Pantera (yet) but it is an awsome looking ride....
> >> MD
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >>
> >> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
> >>
> >> DeTomaso mailing list
> >> DeTomaso at realbig.com
> >> http://ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 27
> >> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:56:55 -0700
> >> From: "Tom Di Iulio" <diiulio at ix.netcom.com>
> >> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Busted engine mount bolts-NO MORE!
> >> To: "'Charles Engles'" <cengles at cox.net>
> >> Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
> >> Message-ID: <000301c646e9$0eb70ec0$6501a8c0 at yourfsyly0jtwn>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> >>
> >> The engine was in the car. I DO have some bolt dust in my hair and eyes
> >> but it only serves to make me more attractive to the opposite sex (no
> >> brokeback Pantera owner here).
> >>
> >> Dear Conan,
> >>
> >> Did you accomplish this victory with the engine in situ or
> >> removed
> >> from the Pantera?
> >>
> >> Very impressive, Chuck Engles
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 28
> >> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 19:11:32 EST
> >> From: JJD1010 at aol.com
> >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Wandering Through the Archives (Was DAZED AND
> >> CONFUSED)
> >> To: detomaso at realbig.com
> >> Cc: rschulze at uis-usa.com
> >> Message-ID: <217.14aafce4.31476434 at aol.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> >>
> >> FYI, Richard is an automobile forensic engineer and a member of PCNT.
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 29
> >> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 19:46:52 -0500
> >> From: "Brian" <gypsy at myspeedworks.com>
> >> Subject: [DeTomaso] Not Pantera Related Stupid crook or stupid cops?
> >> To: <detomaso at realbig.com>
> >> Message-ID: <000a01c64700$c9f708e0$ca9733d0 at home>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >>
> >> I have heard stories on morning talk radio of stupid criminals. I
> >> would
> > laugh and go about my day and never expect that it would happen so close
> > to
> > home. I live in a gated comunity with a clubhouse and gym with night
> > vision
> > cameras. Since the last hurricane our clubhouse is still being repaired.
> > Workers have reported a suspiscous character in the mornings and our
> > association management have collected video tapes of the individual
> > sleeping
> > in the clubhouse over the last two weeks. A few break ins have occured
but
> > our not so worthy police department have not been able to lift prints
> > claiming they were too dirty. On the 9th one of my neighbors noticed
some
> > things were out of place in his office, calls the police and again could
> > not
> > turn up prints. After the police leaves, my neighbor gets on his
computer
> > and hits the down arrow in the address bar. The very first address that
> > shows up is this www.myspace.com/youmyfriend Not recognizing the site he
> > clicks on it. The bastard got on my neighbors computer to check his
email.
> > The funny part is, this is a blog link that allows the user to create a
> > simple website, and smile for the camera. The dumbass took pics of
himself
> > and gave a full description including what school and years he went, for
> > the
> > ladies. Now the bad thing to this story is a few minutes ago I checked
his
> > site and he was last logged on today meaning the cops are too stupid to
> > catch what could be the dumbest crook in West Palm Beach. So debate
this,
> > stupid cops or stupid crook.
> >> Brian
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 30
> >> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 20:37:48 EST
> >> From: GRR456 at aol.com
> >> Subject: [DeTomaso] Brand New 347 For Sale......
> >> To: detomaso at realbig.com
> >> Message-ID: <6b.56f7c6a8.3147786c at aol.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> >>
> >> Brand New 347 Engine built how you want it. Everything is new,
including
> > the
> >> production based 302 block. What I have is a new block, new Ford
> > Motorsport
> >> GT40 Aluminum 6049-Y303 heads with larger 2.02 intake valves and 1.72
> > Motorsport
> >> Pedestal rockers. New gear drive kit, new harmonic balancer, new
> > Motorsport
> >> flywheel. I have the Coast High Street Fighter Kit. Everything has been
> >> balanced to within a gram.
> >>
> >> I'll be using a hyd. roller cam that'll have a ton of low end torque,
but
> > be
> >> suitable for everyday driving.
> >>
> >> This engine will conservatively make about 375 HP with 9.75
compression.
> >> Torque should be in about the same range. That would be on an engine
> >> dyno.
> > It's
> >> power range will be from about 1800 to 5800, and redline at about 6500.
> >>
> >> -Long block, Ford GT40 Aluminum heads, pushrods, rockers and your
choice
> > of
> >> cam (to .515 lift), roller lifters, gear drive, oil pump, fully
assembled
> > and
> >> balanced - $3695
> >>
> >> Complete engine, with everything listed above plus Edelbrock Performer
> >> Intake, front cover, new stock type 3 or 4 bolt balancer and flywheel.
> >> Put
> > your oil
> >> pan, carb, and accessories on and drop in your car - $4625
> >>
> >> Notes:
> >> -I can dyno the engine for $600 additional. This is something I highly
> >> recommend......
> >>
> >> Remember every part is Brand New , including the block!
> >>
> >> This is the high torque street version of what I am building for Mike
> > Drew.
> >>
> >> If you have any questions, feel free to contact me. I am in Troy,
> >> Michigan
> >>
> >> Gary
> >> grr456 at aol.com
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 31
> >> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 23:52:34 -0600
> >> From: Dave Doddek <pantera at pobox.com>
> >> Subject: [DeTomaso] Warning Aussies!
> >> To: detomaso at realbig.com
> >> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20060313235234.00aa8780 at mail.mtco.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >>
> >> This is a warning to all those Pantera owners Down under. Crazy Dave
is
> >> coming to Brisbane. I will be in the land of the roo from the 22nd to
> >> the
> >> 28th in Brisbane and briefly in Perth the Evening of the 29th and 30th.
> >> Not sure yet what my evening and weekend schedule would be, but where
are
> >> the Aussie Pantera owners located and who will buy me a beer?
> >>
> >> Dave "the crazy one" D
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> DeTomaso mailing list
> >> DeTomaso at realbig.com
> >> http://ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >>
> >>
> >> End of DeTomaso Digest, Vol 20, Issue 14
> >> ****************************************
> >>
> >>
> >> __________ Information NOD32 1.1442 (20060314) __________
> >>
> >> Ce message a ete verifie par NOD32 Antivirus System.
> >> http://www.nod32.com
> >>
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >
> > Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
> >
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > DeTomaso at realbig.com
> > http://ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
>
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