[DeTomaso] Intake installation tips?

Wed Oct 4 09:16:15 EDT 2006

Something isn't right here. The Cleveland intake does not have water to it 
so how could it be leaking water?
Forest
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <redvobra at aol.com>
To: <detomaso at realbig.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 12:14 AM
Subject: [DeTomaso] Intake installation tips?


> No sealant huh? I used a very thin layer of it but it doesn't appear to 
> have helped. I also have a little hint of water coming out from the sides 
> of the gaskets as well. I tried retorqing, but it didn't seem to matter.
>
> I was not happy at all with the way my intake went on. It was the biggest 
> PITA ever. I absolutely dread doing it again. I recently rebuilt a '93 302 
> HO and the intake was a piece of cake. This 351C made me want to run home 
> to momma!
>
> Biggest problem I had was that since the bolt holes are at an angle, I 
> couldn't get the holes lined up. Holes wouldn't line up because the intake 
> wasn't down all the way, and I couldn't get it down all the way because I 
> couldn't get the bolts in to tighten it!
>
> I also went with a brand new set of ARP stainless bolts. They didn't want 
> to go in. Some of the threads actually came apart and I wound up putting 
> the old regular steel bolts back in instead. Seems like the old bolts were 
> a little sloppy, and that gave me the tolerence to get them in there.
>
> I normally use the cork stuff on the ends, but it was recently suggested 
> to me that I use a bead of silicon instead, so I tried it on the 351C. 
> Seemed to work fine.
>
> I just got my new gaskets today so I'll be taking apart the motor this 
> weekend and trying again.
>
> Anyone have any more install tips?
>
> -Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wkooiman at earthlink.net
> To: detomaso at realbig.com
> Sent: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 4:17 AM
> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] detonation problems
>
>  Cool!
>
> Someone else may have a tip on how to install the intake properly.  I've
> always done it by the numbers with no gasket sealant.  I follow the torque
> sequence and torque in 3 steps.  After it heat cycles, I check the bolts.
> You're probably supposed to retorque by loosening everything and doing it
> all over again.  I don't do that.
>
> Lately I've been gluing the gaskets to the heads, but that's because I 
> have
> aluminum A3 heads, and the gaskets must be trimmed to fit.  The "glue" 
> makes
> it easier to trim the gasket.
>
> I used to always use the cork end rail gaskets, but lately I've been using 
> a
> bead of silicone.  Both methods have worked well for me.  The negative 
> with
> the silicone is you need to wait for it to dry.
>
> And then there are the gaskets.  I always use Fel-Pro, but there may be
> better gaskets.  I'm certainly not the expert.  The Fel-Pro gaskets I get
> are one solid color, and they tear apart when you remove them - sorta like
> wet cardboard.  I have a set of 4V gaskets that are much stiffer with
> print-o-seal type stuff around the ports.  I would think the A3 gaskets
> would seal better at the expense of more difficult cleanup on removal.
>
> There was a guy in Hot Rod that had o-ring grooves cut in his intake.  I
> don't remember how it all worked, but I believe he had some kind of 
> nitrogen
> filled o-rings in the grooves.  It was a mongo-turbo race engine.  The
> o-rings made it easy for him to pull the engine apart since he didn't have
> to fool with gaskets.  I'd love something like that, but you know it cost 
> a
> lot.  It's not like I change intakes every week, so I need to quit my
> whining.
>
> If you feel comfortable with the way you installed your intake, you may be
> okay with simply retorquing it.  Maybe you have a bolt or two that isn't
> tight anymore.
>
> Will.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
> [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]On Behalf Of redvobra at aol.com
> Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 12:07 AM
> To: detomaso at realbig.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] detonation problems
>
>
> I think you're on the money. I pulled the plugs today and the #1 plug was
> covered in oil. I just replaced the intake, so I must have a bad seal 
> there.
> :(
>
> Time to order another set of gaskets and do it again.
>
> Thanks for the tip.
>
> -Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wkooiman at earthlink.net
> To: detomaso at realbig.com
> Sent: Sun, 1 Oct 2006 5:51 PM
> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] detonation problems
>
>  There's a good chance you're sucking oil into one of the ports.
>
> I once removed a bolt to attach a throttle return spring.  I didn't get 
> the
> bolt on tight enough.  It pinged some, but only when it was under load.  I
> figured it was timing or bad gas.  When I later removed the intake, I 
> could
> see the trail of oil going into the port - right next to the replaced 
> bolt.
>
> It doesn't take much to allow oil to get sucked into a port.  It also
> doesn't take much oil to cause detonation.
>
> I'm not sure how you can resolve this without removing the intake.  If
> you're good, you can probably see bits of aluminum on a plug.  I'm not 
> that
> good.  I'd think you'd have one plug that looks different from the rest, 
> but
> that's just a guess.  If it were me, I'd remove the intake and look for
> trails of black going into a port.
>
> I doubt that it's the carb.  Holley sets up their carbs a little rich to
> prevent problems like this.
>
> Will.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
> [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]On Behalf Of redvobra at aol.com
> Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 7:36 PM
> To: jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com; detomaso at realbig.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] detonation problems
>
>
> Yeah, it's quite sluggish to get the rpm's up, even for a launch. Feels
> like a really heavy flywheel or something. If I advance the timing a bit,
> will it cause more detonation?
>
> Not sure about the total advance or the curve. Whatever is factory from 
> the
> Mallory Unilite distributor is what I have...
>
> Biggest change recently is that I swapped from a torker intake to a
> performer intake so that I could put a stock engine cover on. Perhaps the
> stock engine cover is not venting heat as well. Engine is warmer, plus 
> it's
> bringing in warmer air?
>
> -Chris
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
> To: redvobra at aol.com; detomaso at realbig.com
> Sent: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 3:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] detonation problems
>
>  Chris
>
> Your initial timing is very low.  Does the car fell sluggish off throttle?
>
> Perhaps more important than initial timing is the dimension of the curve 
> and
> total advance.
>
> At what RPM are you getting total advance and what is it?
>
> Also, the stock damper outer rings separate from the inner damper over 
> time
> and may shift causing the timing marks to be off.  It can be difficult to
> detect this shift.  It is best to look at the status of the rubber 
> insulator
> between the two pieces.  Another approach is to find top dead center on #1
> cylinder and see if the timing mark is at "0".  You need to determine if 
> the
> damper marks are accurate.
>
> With this knowledge you can begin to set strategy.
>
> JT
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <redvobra at aol.com>
> To: <detomaso at realbig.com>
> Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 3:33 PM
> Subject: [DeTomaso] detonation problems
>
>
>> My Pantera has always been a little on the verge of pre-ignition. If I 
>> put
>> anything but premium Chevron into the car, it'll start pinging. But
>> lately, it's been happening so often that it's becoming annoying. It's
>> most noticeable when the car is fully warmed up, on throttle tip in.
>> Initial timing is set at 8 degrees and it has a fresh Holly 650 on it.
>> Dunno why it would be getting worse unless California gas is now sucking
>> even more.
>>
>> Any thoughts/suggestions? Should I change the timing? Go to a colder 
>> plug?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> -Chris
>>
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>
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