[DeTomaso] Subwoofer question

Wed Feb 7 12:32:19 CST 2007

<<"tactile transducer" (Larry, don't even go there!)>>

Sorry, I have already dater her years ago...

Larry (been there) - Cleveland

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chris Difani" <cdifani at pacbell.net>
To: "MyCars" <MyCars at comcast.net>; "chris terp" <thefuture98070 at yahoo.com>
Cc: <detomaso at realbig.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 11:37 AM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Subwoofer question

> Guys:
>
> My point is that I'm using a "tactile transducer" (Larry, don't even go 
> there!), which is not a traditional "speaker". It does not use, or require 
> an enclosure of any kind. It's also designed to reproduce the very low 
> frequencies. The sound that we "feel" rather than hear.
>
> The units that I'm using are Aura Pro Bass Shaker's, rated at 50 watts, 
> and are sold by (among others) www.partsexpress.com as part number 
> 299-028. These units are about $35 each, but if you really like the idea, 
> Parts Express has other "tactile tranducers" that go upwards of $400 each.
>
> These "speakers" are 2.6" high, by 6.7" in diameter, and are encased in a 
> heavy duty cast aluminum housing. They are designed to be solidly bolted 
> to the floor boards of the vehicle. They use the floor as the "sounding 
> board", and since you're also sitting on those same "floor boards", you 
> "feel" the bass very well.
>
> Take a look at the information and pictures shown in Parts Express, and 
> you'll "see" what I'm talking about. Here's the direct URL:
>
> http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=299-028
>
> As I've mentioned before, I have these in my Ford F350 dually four door 
> 4WD diesel, and they're great. Of course I also drive them with their very 
> own amplifier....
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Chris
>
> Chris Difani
> '73 L #5829 "LITNNG"
> Sacramento, CA
> Email: cdifani at pacbell.net
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "MyCars" <MyCars at comcast.net>
> To: "chris terp" <thefuture98070 at yahoo.com>
> Cc: <cdifani at pacbell.net>; <detomaso at realbig.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 6:34 AM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Subwoofer question
>
>
>> What about on the passenger, under the dash? In my car (pushbutton),
>> there is a ton of room up there.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 2007-02-07 at 06:12 -0800, chris terp wrote:
>>> Third Chris checking in here,
>>>
>>>   What do you guys think about mounting the bass in the front trunk?  It 
>>> would eliminate having to the cut the frame.
>>>
>>>   Just a thought.
>>>
>>>   Chris Terp
>>>   '74 Pantera
>>>
>>> Christopher Kimball <chrisvkimball at msn.com> wrote:
>>>   Hi Chris,
>>>
>>> Interesting ideas. I'm going to put a dual voice coil sub, (I just 
>>> ordered
>>> a 12", hope it fits!) behind the passenger seat and build the enclosure 
>>> back
>>> into the engine compartment where the electrical gizmos are now. I'll 
>>> move
>>> them somewhere convenient.
>>>
>>> Regarding your idea, I have a couple of thoughts. (By the way, for years 
>>> I
>>> installed car stereos professionally and I think I was way ahead of my 
>>> time
>>> in 1981 when I installed twin 15" subs in my Subaru Brat...!)
>>>
>>> First, not only is it important, as you point out, to have the speakers
>>> bolted directly to a firm sounding board (IE the floor, door panel,
>>> firewall, 3/4" board, etc.) but the internal volume of the enclosure is
>>> critical for proper sound. If you have a enclosure which is too small 
>>> for
>>> the speaker, the bass becomes far too thumpy because the speaker can't
>>> exercise the proper excursion, and the sound waves have nowhere to 
>>> develop
>>> behind the speaker.
>>>
>>> It's possible to use a vented enclosure which is smaller than optimum to
>>> allow the speaker to move freely and to its maximum travel, but if the 
>>> box
>>> is too small you still get unsatisfying bass. I found this out when I 
>>> put
>>> the 15" subs in the Subaru--the box I built in the bed had to fit behind 
>>> the
>>> two jump seats, so even though the enclosure was fairly large, it was
>>> nowhere near the size it needed to be (think "Klipsch horns") Even 
>>> though I
>>> had plenty of power and even ended up venting the box, the bass just 
>>> simply
>>> didn't sound very good. In my present car I only have a 10" dual voice 
>>> coil
>>> sub (in conjunction with 6x9 four-ways, 6" two ways and two additional
>>> tweeters) and the bass sounds great. The key is travel and the volume
>>> (size) of the box. The 10" uses the entire trunk of the car as an
>>> enclosure.
>>>
>>> In fact, many modern, powered subwoofers are moving toward using smaller
>>> diameter woofers with longer travel in decent size boxes for the deep 
>>> bass
>>> we all crave.
>>>
>>> Before you cut your floor, you might try temporarily wiring in a 10" or 
>>> 12"
>>> dual voice coil sub which is already in a good-sized enclosure (you 
>>> could
>>> set it on the passenger seat just for the test) and see how it sounds. 
>>> You
>>> might find a slightly smaller speaker would sound better in a particular
>>> sized enclosure than would a larger one.
>>>
>>> In my family room I have a Bose subwoofer which only has two 6" drivers 
>>> in
>>> it, but due to the excursion capability and quality of the drivers, 
>>> along
>>> with the carefully designed box with its intricate inner ports, it 
>>> sounds
>>> fantastic. Come to think of it, maybe that's what I should be mounting 
>>> in
>>> my Pantera!!
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> >From: "Chris Difani"
>>> >Reply-To: "Chris Difani"
>>> >To: "Christopher Kimball"
>>> >Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Subwoofer question
>>> >Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 21:53:25 -0800
>>> >
>>> >Christopher:
>>> >
>>> >Did you ever decide on what or where your subwoofer's going to be? Or 
>>> >if
>>> >you're going to install one?
>>> >
>>> >I had a speaker "epiphany" the other day. I'm still in the construction
>>> >phase of my sound system (along with everything else), and haven't 
>>> >finished
>>> >all the details yet. And I was still worried about just how I'd install 
>>> >the
>>> >Aura Pro kickers. I've had them in my pickup for years, and I really 
>>> >enjoy
>>> >them, which meant that I also wanted to enjoy them in the Pantera, but 
>>> >I
>>> >didn't know how.
>>> >
>>> >So, getting back to my epiphany. With my Aura "butt kicker" speakers, I
>>> >realized that the critical issue is to have them bolted to the floor. 
>>> >But
>>> >it doesn't matter if they're on the top, or on the bottom. The face of 
>>> >the
>>> >speaker needs to be bolted to the floor pan. But the orientation of the
>>> >"speaker" isn't critical.
>>> >
>>> >So on my Pantera, I'm bolting the Aura Pro bass kickers to the floor 
>>> >pan,
>>> >from under the car. Then I'll "box" them in with a piece of 7" pipe 
>>> >that's
>>> >2.7" high, fabricated such that it will protect, seal, and cover the
>>> >speaker. The cover will bolt to the floor boards "around" the Aura 
>>> >Pro's
>>> >location.
>>> >
>>> >They have a 2.7" profile, constructed of heavy cast aluminum, and are
>>> >sealed. The only "damage" that I'll do to my floor pan is the 4 bolt 
>>> >holes,
>>> >and the half inch grommet hole for the two speaker wires. All these 
>>> >will be
>>> >concealed under the carpet, and will also be centered under my seats. I 
>>> >may
>>> >cut a "flap" in the carpet, over the Aura's location, just for 
>>> >convenience,
>>> >but it's not necessary.
>>> >
>>> >As for ground clearance under the car, with the sheet metal fabrication
>>> >design of the floor pan, the "speakers" will fit between the stiffening
>>> >ridges, so their maximum extension into the "ground clearance" profile 
>>> >is
>>> >about 2.3" or so, then add in another tenth for the metal cover, and 
>>> >I'll
>>> >loose about 2.5" of clearance in these two places. But even with these
>>> >installed under the pan, I've still got more than 4.5" of clearance.
>>> >
>>> >Hope this helps,
>>> >
>>> >Chris
>>> >
>>> >Chris Difani
>>> >'73 L #5829 "LITNNG"
>>> >Sacramento, CA
>>> >Email: cdifani at pacbell.net
>>> >
>>> >----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Difani"
>>> >To: "Christopher Kimball"
>>> >Sent: Monday, January 01, 2007 11:10 PM
>>> >Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Subwoofer question
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >>Chris:
>>> >>
>>> >>Something you might think about is the Aura Pro "Butt Kicker" 
>>> >>speakers.
>>> >>These are for the low frequencies. They bolt to the floor, under the
>>> >>seats, and you need a decent amp to drive them. But they really do a 
>>> >>great
>>> >>job for the low frequencies.
>>> >>
>>> >>This is what I'm doing, a 500 watt Sony XPlod amp, with 2 channels to 
>>> >>the
>>> >>main speakers (8 of them) and the other 2 channels bridged, and 
>>> >>driving
>>> >>the Aura butt kickers whch are wired in paralell. Parts Express 
>>> >>carries
>>> >>the Aura units, which are $30 each, on sale. I've been using these for
>>> >>years in my diesel Ford F-350 crew cab 4WD, and they're wonderful.
>>> >>
>>> >>Of course my hearing isn't as good as it used to be.....
>>> >>
>>> >>Getting back to your orginal question. The area behind the firewall, 
>>> >>on
>>> >>the driver's side is the gas tank. There's about a half inch of 
>>> >>clearance
>>> >>between the firewall and the tank. Then there's the engine, and then 
>>> >>the
>>> >>passenger side behind the firewall. There is some room there.. but I'd 
>>> >>be
>>> >>wary. Also the firewall is part of the support of the car. It's not a
>>> >>simple divider. In a house you would call it a "bearing wall", which 
>>> >>means
>>> >>that you would have to box in any additional openings.
>>> >>
>>> >>Chris
>>> >>
>>> >>Chris Difani
>>> >>'73 L #5829 "LITNNG"
>>> >>Sacramento, CA
>>> >>Email: cdifani at pacbell.net
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Kimball"
>>> >>
>>> >>To:
>>> >>Sent: Monday, January 01, 2007 10:40 PM
>>> >>Subject: [DeTomaso] Subwoofer question
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>>I'm thinking of moving some of the components which are currently in 
>>> >>>the
>>> >>>engine bay behind the passenger seat in my 1972 Pre-L Pantera so I 
>>> >>>can
>>> >>>cut through the bulkhead to install a subwoofer. I thought I could 
>>> >>>weld
>>> >>>in a stainless steel cooking pot with a 11" or 13" or so diameter for 
>>> >>>the
>>> >>>cabinet, use insulation in it for acoustical purposes (and to help
>>> >>>prevent heat from reaching the cabin) and mount the subwoofer from 
>>> >>>the
>>> >>>inside of the cabin.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>At the same time, I'm considering buying a flat bulkhead kit and 
>>> >>>lowered
>>> >>>floor pans to increase passenger room.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>Has anyone tried this before and/or know how much clearance I have
>>> >>>between the firewall and the first engine part I'd run into? For 
>>> >>>sound
>>> >>>purposes, more depth means more cubic inches of air in the cabinet 
>>> >>>and
>>> >>>better sound.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>For those who will accuse me of not loving the "Cleveland Symphony"
>>> >>>enough, let me just say that in a past life I was a professional
>>> >>>musician, so I love music about equally with my love for loud, 
>>> >>>powerful
>>> >>>engines...!
>>> >>>
>>> >>>Thanks,
>>> >>>
>>> >>>Chris
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
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>>> >
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>>>
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