[DeTomaso] [NPC] Big dollars at BJ auction

Mon Jan 22 18:09:52 EST 2007

Donny,

        I think you're basically right.  To a great extent, a Pantera is an unknown quantity.  I had a Pantera in 75, but when I started thinking about playing with cars again a few years ago, because I just about never see one, I had almost forgotten that Panteras ever existed.  Most people have no clue about how cool a mid engine V8 is.

  Ken

Donny Williams <donnylee at ccwebster.net> wrote:
  I only got to watch it from the tube.... My theory on the Pantera and the 
soft prices we have seen is the fact that not many of them were made to be 
had in the first place. While maybe a bargain at the time when they were 
new...these were expensive money in the day the average guy could simply not 
afford. And not too practical really for average Family Joe.

For that reason, I theorize most car guys simply just did not grow up 
around them (I am an exception, as many of us owners today are, and that is 
why I have one now). A Pantera is not like having had two of your neighbors 
who had 427 Vettes when you were riding your bike around the street. Or 
Billy who had that LS-1 Chevelle, Cuda, Challenger, Camaro, in High School 
that went claimed undeafeted street fighting it. A Pantera was never 
regular running down a Cuda or a Ram Air 4 GTO down Woodward avenue. 
Pantera's were never parked at the Malt shops with Shoe Box Chevy's..... So 
it is my theory the Pantera was clearly absent the exposure of what people 
grew up around for the most part, and has pretty much kept the car in the 
dark through the ages. People in the market for exotic likely wanted the 
status of a Ferrari, or Porche, rather then a newer unknown mark for less 
money at the time. That still may hold true today.

Not for a direct comparison to the Pantera, but another example; I have seen 
the same thing with early second generation Trans Ams 70-73. In my opinion 
one of the finest cars Pontiac ever had in its arsenol, and 70% better then 
the GTO for Handling and yes in my opinion looks too (I have owned Both) 
But the fact is they are soft on price compared to some other GM cars. The 
reason again, I theorize there was just not that many made in these years. 
There were only 3600 Trans am made in 70. a few more in 71, a lot less in 72 
from a strike.... The bad ass 73 SD 455 was a scarce bird to be had at any 
Pontiac dealer, and while the SDs bring good money about 50K now, nothing 
anywhere near what the competition brings. Don't get me started on the 
cheesey Smokey and Bandit TAs....Different animal from the first four years

On to Barrett Jackson. I too believe its a superbowl spectacular of foolish 
money, some foolish car claims, there is more 1 of 1s on the planet now then 
I have ever heard in my life. There is more sub 40K original mile over 
restored cars on the block. What I will say, is I would not want to have to 
sell to soon after being a buyer at an auction like this.... As pointed out 
not easy to sell that 65 Mustang for 100K to just anyone browsing an ad. It 
takes a sea of foolish money like at BJ to accomplish that.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Shortt" 
To: "Ken Green" 
Cc: 
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 12:24 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] [NPC] Big dollars at BJ auction

> You all have stated the case very well, it helps those of us who have our
> cars already and clearly it makes saving some borderline cars ( two in HI
> that come to mind ) more feasible if the investment can be redeemed in the
> black someday. People rebuild lots of Ferraris just from a part of a
> chassis or body part and serial number plate.,
>
> I think some of the hype that went on is just silly and those who 
> literally
> bought into it are fools i.e. The Alice Cooper "Zephyr" Billion Dollar 
> Baby
> Car.
> It's freaking fiberglass kit with a "35K Paint job", most of the 32 Fords
> were also kit cars and ditto on the recreations and tributes, real is the
> deal. - period.
>
> On the flip side, two years ago or so, Johnny Carson's last sports car, a
> white C4 vette went for 10K, and given the market price for a 20 year old
> corvette, it was a fair price, that same car today would go for 50-100K 
> and
> it'll still drive like a truck. I cannot look at a Mustang GT 350 and see 
> a
> house, I just don't get it, it's a Mustang fastback with $1,000 worth of
> parts stuck on it, but in HHI in the fall I saw 3 sell for 225K plus each.
> Several went this weekend for much more. It all smoke and mirrors, my
> friend has a GT-350H, the door was dented recently, the replacement door 
> is
> available for pocket change because the of the created market for Mustang
> parts, still don't get how it's a $300K car car with a $500.00 door!
>
> I know that a truly Stock pantera is rare - and for good reason, the cars
> needed help and we have all fixed, repaired, researched and diagnosed the
> problems that have allowed them to still be running ( and quickly ) 35 
> years
> later, in fact they are better now than they ever were before. 
> Originally,
> they had a reputation for being unreliable and for overheating, heck, 
> Elvis
> only paid something like $5,400 for his in 1975, it was just a 4 year old
> used car, 50% of the sticker value.
>
> The Italian-American hybrid sports cars are now coming into their own and
> it's about time, the rest of the world will gravitate to us, because
> Panteras are still a great value, I watched hundreds of cars go by this
> weekend on TV, and I thought to myself, I'd trade my car for that
> one...about 3 times. It wasn't the money when I bought it, it wasn't the
> money when I was 11 years old and lusted after it, it was the styling, the
> performance and I guess some of that weird part of all of us (Pantera
> People) that wants to run with a different crowd and not become the gold
> chain bejeweled, Smokey and the Bandit aluminum jacket wearing, Corvette
> driving, Mid life crisis jackass who thinks he's driving a P wagon, going 
> 55
> in the left lane!
>
>
> Michael Shortt
>
>
>
> On 1/22/07, Ken Green wrote:
>>
>> It is a lot easier to justify spending the $s to make a Pantera 
>> nice
>> if it will have a reasonable value when it's done. But I worry a little
>> that unless the cars getting auctioned are very carefully inspected, some
>> people are gonna get stuck with expensive rust buckets. That could 
>> really
>> hurt the marque. I assume the auction houses covers themselves with a
>> blanket of disclaimers?
>>
>> Ken
>>
>> *Mark McWhinney * wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]
>> On
>> Behalf Of Joel Montero
>> Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 9:43 AM
>> To: B. Seib; Michael Shortt; detomaso at realbig.com
>> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] [NPC] Big dollars at BJ auction
>> >> I worry at times whether or not these sorts of events are beginning to
>> push your basic, run-of-the-mill car guy/gal away from the hobby for
>> economic reasons.
>>
>> That is a good question. I think that it actually helps bring people into
>> the hobby just like the Superbowl brings players into the sport even
>> though
>> only a very few select people will make it to the big event.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
> -- 
> Michael L. Shortt
> Savannah, Georgia
>
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